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Burner shutting off when new Roth oil tanks are 1/4 full Both tanks are 275 and connected

CharlesD
CharlesD Member Posts: 7
I need help.....I have two Roth Oil tanks, both 275 gallon installed in my basement. They are a bout 5 1/2 feet from my furnace {3 year old] Oil is drawn from the top with copper pipe.
My problem is that every time both tanks reach 1/4 full, it stopped the flow of Oil to the furnace. It has happened 3 times so far and the Oil company thought it was the starter so they replaced that but at the same time they filled my tanks to the top and Oil furnace started fine. But now both tanks are 1/4 full and my Oil furnace stopped again.
Thank you very much for any help/info you can provide.
CharlesD

Comments

  • happydave
    happydave Member Posts: 79
    Charles, do you know if Roth factory tank kit/fittings were used? Does the dip tubes in tank go to the bottom? Or if the plastic dip tube has a crack in it so when it reaches a certain spot it sucks air. Also what brand oil burner? Not the boiler but the gun, Riello, Beckett, Carlin? If it's Riello it could be the fuel pump. There fuel pumps do not pull as much vacuum/ head as the others. We have had issues with the tank/burner combo before. Good.luck
  • Bob Bona_4
    Bob Bona_4 Member Posts: 2,083
    We could ask what kind of pull (vacuum) the delivery system is seeing at a low tank situation, or if the pick up tube is at the appropriate level and intact. But in any lift piping scenario, a device called a Tiger Loop oil dearator is your best insurance, no matter what brand the burner. Do you have this?
  • CharlesD
    CharlesD Member Posts: 7
    Morning:......My Oil Burner is a Riello. All the fittings areall from Roth factory installed. We checked all that. I emailed all the details to Roth including pictures of the whole installation. They promised an email back...so we see, if Roth will answer and I'll let you know.
    We also checked the pulling copper pipe going into each tank reaches all the way down the tank....maybe 2 inches from bottom.
    Our mistake was we wanted to buy American and we bought Roth Tanks which are top feeder instead of bottom feeder so it does create problem any bubbles of air form
    Trying to find a solution and reading on different Websites, I discover about 33 people with the same issue all with Roth tanks.
    I was surprised. I now believe a Tigerloop is needed but will wait for Roth's anwser first
  • Bob Bona_4
    Bob Bona_4 Member Posts: 2,083
    The Reillo cannot tolerate lift situations very well. I see a Loop in your near future. Get the Ultra with the spin on filter integrated.
    Ron Jr._3
  • Charlie from wmass
    Charlie from wmass Member Posts: 4,200
    Tiger loop is recommended with all roth installations. Also I would question if the pick up tube reaches the bottom of the tank. If they used soft copper it maybe curved and not reaching the bottom as it should.
    Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

    cell # 413-841-6726
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
  • iix
    iix Member Posts: 18
    Make sure any fittings at the top of the tank are tight. Ive seen a lose flare on a roth tank that made a burner lose prime every time the tank dropped down to 1/3 of a tank.
    AlCorelliNY
  • CharlesD
    CharlesD Member Posts: 7
    Below is the Roth email I got but no real answer, I did email them all the pictures they wanted If they answer, I'll post it too so you can all read it and perhaps get some help.....I doubt it but we see
    ==========
    My Oil company clearly sold me a furnace and top feed Roth Oil tanks that are not compatible together for the job. I now know the Reillo burner system cannot pull that much Oil weight when the Roth tanks are 1/4 full so it created an air bubble and that shut off the furnace. I am looking to replace both Roth Oil tanks with bottom feed tanks or a bigger tank....Also I am reading about the Tigerloop and see if that option is better and will enable me to keep the Roth Tanks
    ==========================================
    Email from Roth on this issue

    Hi Charles,
    I will be happy to assist you with this issue.
    Please send pictures of the tank so that I will have a better idea of the issue.
    Please send pictures of the entire tank and piping from a couple of different angles and some close-ups. Be sure to send a picture of the labels with the serial numbers on the tanks.
    In addition, please give me the address where the tanks are installed.

    Regards,
    Steve Gibbs
    Product Manager
    Roth-Logo-4c_email (2)
    One General Motors Drive
    Syracuse, NY 13206

  • Bob Bona_4
    Bob Bona_4 Member Posts: 2,083
    edited May 2015
    Roth doesn't make bottom feed tanks. Everything is compatible, the installer just didn't put in an important component to make them work reliably together.
    Charlie from wmass
  • Jack
    Jack Member Posts: 1,045
    Charles, I wouldn't be in such a hurry to replace those Roths. They are a 100% containment tank and there is value in that.
  • Kakashi
    Kakashi Member Posts: 88
    The tanks should equalize...if they don't you have a bad connection or maybe a plugged oil line in one of the tanks. It's not a compatibility issue unless your tank is very very very far away.
    How many oil lines come off of your burner's pump?
  • CharlesD
    CharlesD Member Posts: 7
    Yesterday, we installed an Ultra Tigerloop and we are back to normal. Thank you for all the answers we got and for the good advice on the Tigerloop.

    I think this site is real good for homeowners like me who generally trust their Oil Company to do the right job with installation of new furnace and Oil tanks.

    Had I done a little research, I would have seen the coming issues with Top Feeding tanks and my Riello new burner not been able to pull the Oil weight when tanks are 1/4 full. Clearly, they were not compatible at all.
  • billtwocase
    billtwocase Member Posts: 2,385
    Charles, first I will say that Roth is a sand up company, and that e-mail was the start of a process so eloquently stated at that. generally companies do not deal directly with a homeowner, it is done thru a supplier or rep. Those tanks are supposed to be installed by certified installers. I am certified by Roth as in installer. Fortunately for you and most, they will still stand by their product even though it may not be installed correctly
  • CharlesD
    CharlesD Member Posts: 7
    Hummm sorry but Roth is as responsible as my Oil company "Love Oil of NY. When Roth goes an license Oil Companies as
    Certified Installers, they should also see that they understand things like Tank low point capacity and burner ability to pull the weight of the Oil from the Tank with low Oil level. I am a homeowner and I trusted the Roth Representative who came with my Oil company salesman to see and decide on my needs for the Oil Tanks and furnace. The problem here is Roth License Oil companies then the Oil company send one of their guy who is just an employee doing his job and installs a furnace and Oil Tanks........The guy installed what he was told and I trusted both Roth and the Oil company to know what they were doing.
    If it were not for this site, I would still try to figure out what my problem was, I got no help from Roth or my Oil company because, both had they head in the sand and were telling me, I had to keep my Oil tanks full.........a lot of BS, really...... As soon as I had my Ultra Tigerloop installed, everything worked fine. My tank went down to less than 1/8 capacity and my furnace still worked. Would I say Roth manufactures good Oil Tanks?, yes...would I give them a high mark for customer service, NO. The homeowner is left to fix it alone, so shame on Roth and shame on Love Oil of NY
  • Charlie from wmass
    Charlie from wmass Member Posts: 4,200
    Roth teaches them, not polices them. Blame your oil tech who did the install.
    Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

    cell # 413-841-6726
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
    kcoppbilltwocaseCanuckerZman
  • billtwocase
    billtwocase Member Posts: 2,385

    Email from Roth on this issue

    Hi Charles,
    I will be happy to assist you with this issue.
    Please send pictures of the tank so that I will have a better idea of the issue.
    Please send pictures of the entire tank and piping from a couple of different angles and some close-ups. Be sure to send a picture of the labels with the serial numbers on the tanks.
    In addition, please give me the address where the tanks are installed.

    Regards,
    Steve Gibbs
    Product Manager
    Roth-Logo-4c_email (2)
    One General Motors Drive
    Syracuse, NY 13206


    Charles, unless there is some missing e-mails, this one does not appear to be stand offish, or it's your problem and not ours tone. Did you send them the requested info? Tigerloops, in my eyes, are a bandaid that mask the real problem. Many will think differently on that. As Charlie stated above, they only teach, they don't police. You may want to get them your warranty info so they can stand behind their product. I have no affiliation with Roth, but I often do see where manufactures get's slammed for poor instal, workmanship, and maintenance. We all pay the price for that. Good luck
    RobGLarry_52Canucker
  • Bob Bona_4
    Bob Bona_4 Member Posts: 2,083
    Roth just makes the tanks. It's up to the installer to provide and install the needed components to complete the fuel delivery system to the burner. In that scope, he or she must know piping design and burner pump capacities. Riello is the most sensitive to lift situations. I wouldn't wish a Roth/Riello lift setup without a Tiger on anyone. The loop should be as standard on that piping as an oil filter is.
    Charlie from wmass
  • Kakashi
    Kakashi Member Posts: 88
    Post before and after pictures. There was a small air leak somewhere or maybe a return was only running back to one tank or those rubber hoses (just my opinion). It was your installer, not Roth or Riello.

    If you see bubbles or foam in your tiger-loop, you still have a problem.
    Charlie from wmassLarry_52
  • ron
    ron Member Posts: 148
    CharlesD said:

    Oil is drawn from the top with copper pipe.

    fwiw my traditional 275 gallon steel tank in my garage was drawn off the top, that's how i bought the house. i have run it till the burner shut off for lack of oil at least twice and the most the tank would take on a fill is ~210 gallon. i am in the process of having the tank replaced and when i ran out of oil a couple months ago i finally got around to seeing what was what. i pulled the pick up out and to my surprise the idiot that put it in had a complete U loop at the bottom of the pickup so i had at least a foot of oil on the bottom of the tank that was un-drawable. i redid the copper pickup and have it pulling from 1-2 inches off the bottom of the tank since.... i will probably not have hot water for a shower tomorrow.
  • CharlesD
    CharlesD Member Posts: 7
    Billtwocase......What is missing from the email I got from Roth is .....even with my address, location, they never responded...That is what is missing

    I found at least 49 people online with the same issue, so, Roth needs to do a better job in licensing the Oil Companies to install their tanks..........maybe they license them to be salesmen but not installers for sure.
  • Charlie from wmass
    Charlie from wmass Member Posts: 4,200
    As a licensed installer I can tell you they teach the proper way to install their tanks. If your contractor did a bad job that is on them.
    Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

    cell # 413-841-6726
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
  • billtwocase
    billtwocase Member Posts: 2,385
    Glad to hear that it is running good now Charles, that is all that matters. We are here to help and not harass, so some questions may come out that way, but not intended
  • Kakashi
    Kakashi Member Posts: 88
    He must work for Granby.
  • CharlesD
    CharlesD Member Posts: 7
    Hey...Not to worry, all that matters to me is that it now works ...I want to thank all the people who were nice enough to look at my problem and help, give advice. As suggested on this site, I installed an Ultra Tigerloop and I am all set.
    Thank you very much to all
  • happydave
    happydave Member Posts: 79
    It's all about the Riello pump.....no balls