What type of piping is this?

Ross_24

Found this on a small residential heating system. Looks exactly like the hot water hoses I use to drain a boiler. I found it leaking at the hose clamp joint...

Anyone know what type of piping this actually is?

delta T

Entran? cant be sure without seeing some lettering. anywhere else you can expose it and find any kind of labeling?

bmwpowere36m3

I don't know exactly, but it looks just like the hose I use for oil transfer pump. I'm assuming something rubber-based and cord-reinforced.

Either way... I'd replace it with copper or PEX.

Ross_24

I couldn't find any lettering on the tubing although this is the only exposed area. It seems this tubing was used during a second floor remodel (there's none to be found in the basement).

The tubing has a black inner color and does look very much like a radiator hose or how others have described Entran/Heatway. The coloring is reddish and not as bright of a color as the other examples I've found.

Hmm

KC_Jones

That looks exactly like my Goodyear garden hose. Black inner red outer and mine doesn't have any markings left on it due to age. Sounds crazy I know, but I am sure you guys have seen some crazy stuff before.
http://www.fivestarchemicals.com/wp-content/uploads/horizon-200-copy.jpg

Ross_24

KC_Jones said:

That looks exactly like my Goodyear garden hose. Black inner red outer and mine doesn't have any markings left on it due to age. Sounds crazy I know, but I am sure you guys have seen some crazy stuff before.
http://www.fivestarchemicals.com/wp-content/uploads/horizon-200-copy.jpg

You're not crazy. They look just like the hoses on my truck. I was rushed this morning but I'm going to have to head back and see if I can find any markings.

ChrisJ

First thing I thought was heater hose from a car. I'm almost positive I've seen it in red before.

Abracadabra

ChrisJ said:

First thing I thought was heater hose from a car. I'm almost positive I've seen it in red before.

Yep... looks like heater hose to me..

Rich_49

Hot Water Hose . NOT PIPING

ChrisJ

Rich said:

Hot Water Hose . NOT PIPING

By definition a hose can be called a pipe. In fact, I believe in the UK it's popular to call them "hose pipes".

Rich_49

It is also popular to call dentures teeth in the UK .

Ross_24

Rich said:

Hot Water Hose . NOT PIPING

Here's a few pics of my hot water hose in the shop... looks familiar hmm

I'm guessing the best course of action is to get rid of this stuff? It would be quite an intrusive process for sure.

ChrisJ

Any chance the hose could be used as a snake to pull new pex in?

Ross_24

It was a brief visit this morning so I will have to go back to sort things out. I'm not certain but I believe that the entire second floor was added in the 1980s. This is where I found the red hose in an accessible knee wall. I'm assuming it was run all over.

Fred

Wow, and on a second floor, no less. It does look like automotive heater hose. I would think the HO would want that out ASAP. It lasted this long, they are really pushing their luck, at this point.

DanHolohan

I believe that's Heatway's Entran 3.

Ross_24

DanHolohan said:

I believe that's Heatway's Entran 3.

Hm. So is Entran 3 following in the same path at Entran 2? It looks like there was a class action suit for Entran 3 a couple years ago. What's worse is this is a high temp system with no mixing set up.. on the second floor.

http://www.entran3coclass.com/pdf/Amended Complaint.pdf

DanHolohan

I've had E-3 feeding a kick-space heater in my kitchen 180 F. water for more than 20 years. No problems.

ChrisJ

Rich said:

It is also popular to call dentures teeth in the UK .

Do they really?

hot_rod

It does look like a Heatway Entran, but it would have markings about every 2- 3 feet. That is not the clamp or barbed adapter that they used. Also 1980 would be a bit early for any of the Entrans, or their prototypes

Another possibility is MPH "multi purpose hose" It's sold under many names Goodyear, Dayco, really any rubber or hose manufacturer has a product that falls under the MPH designation.

I've seen air handler coils tubed off steel mains with hose like that. A few schools my area were piped with MPH.

Heater hose from most any auto parts store would look like that also, and I have seen that red color before.

It's rare to find a manufactured product without some label or listings on it.

Ross_24

If anyone is interested, I stopped back in this morning and found some markings on the tubing. It's made by Thermoid and is an automotive heat hose.

I found a total of 35' of it used on the second floor. I'll be removing it and replacing.

KC_Jones

WOW...just WOW.

Mark Eatherton

Looks like Harvway Hose :-) During the E2 investigations, we ran into some of this stuff up in Vail. A local told us that a guy named Harvey purchased a boatload of this stuff because he saw people installing Heatway's Entran 2 and realized it was nothing more than a truck radiator hose, so if it was OK for them to do it, it must be OK for him to do it, hence the name Harvway.

By code, all products used as a tube for transporting heating fluids is required to have indelible markings every three feet maximum. Marking is supposed to show makers name, brand name, and standards to which it complies. In any case, this obviously doesn't meet code, and it is not an oxygen barrier product. You are doing the right thing by getting rid of it, because if it did fail and cause major water damage, the HO's insurance company could deny the claim due to numerous reasons.

Oh, and Dan, E2 has been recalled by the manufacturer under the rules of the class action against them. If you have a product in your home that has been recalled, your insurance company can deny ALL water based claims until which time it has removed and replaced with an acceptable material. Best get it replaced...
Tricky little buggers, them insurance companies are.

I did hear rumblings of an E3 class action, but now that I am out of that end of the business, I never looked real deep into the situation.

EDIT: I just reread Dan's comment, and realized he used E3, which IF it has in fact been found to be defective, my suggestion applies. If it were me, I'd replace it anyway, because hose will continue to get harder and harder with time and will eventually fail where ever there is mechanical stress being imparted (hose clamp = mechanical stress)

ME

Ross_24

Scheduled to replace the tubing this week.

Unfortunately, we got a call last night and the tubing completely split a few feet upstream of the original leaking joint. Looks like we'll be heading over there today!

icesailor

Back in the last century, some of us used to go to the local auto parts store and buy a 50' box of 5/8" ID heater hose and use it to connect dishwashers to sink drains. Until the manufacturers decided to make a plastic drain hose long enough to go from the pump to the sink drain, and there was so much excess that you had to run the excess to the top of the cabinet so the contents of the sink didn't back up into the bottom of the dishwasher. Contaminating the clean dishes.

Then, my supplier decided to cut out the auto parts store and started carrying heater hose. Only in black from Solder Seal. In 10 to 15 years, they started leaking at the clamp. And that was with no pressure.

ChrisJ

icesailor said:

Back in the last century, some of us used to go to the local auto parts store and buy a 50' box of 5/8" ID heater hose and use it to connect dishwashers to sink drains. Until the manufacturers decided to make a plastic drain hose long enough to go from the pump to the sink drain, and there was so much excess that you had to run the excess to the top of the cabinet so the contents of the sink didn't back up into the bottom of the dishwasher. Contaminating the clean dishes.

Then, my supplier decided to cut out the auto parts store and started carrying heater hose. Only in black from Solder Seal. In 10 to 15 years, they started leaking at the clamp. And that was with no pressure.

Am I the only one that hates the fact my dishwasher is connected with that really super cheap flexible plastic hose? I really wish there was a better solution.

icesailor

You may hate it. But experience shows that the cheap plastic hose outlives the dishwasher by a considerable margin. And the one that comes with the dishwasher is always long enough when the dishwasher is next to a sink and the sink drain is used as an indirect waste.

If some kitchen designer doesn't know what they are doing in their designs, you have the heater hose to fall back to.

Try fishing a piece of 7/8" ID heater hose under a Bosch dishwasher, and you will never complain about that cheap plastic hose again. Let alone connect it and get the front cover on.

jumper

Folks call industrial hose and clamps mickey mouse plumbing.But consider the environment under your truck's hood.

ChrisJ

jumper said:

Folks call industrial hose and clamps mickey mouse plumbing.But consider the environment under your truck's hood.

Several differences here that are very important.

My cars both run a 20 PSI system and get as hot as 230F on a daily basis. Yes, it is a much harsher environment than a home heating system.

However, if a hose fails it won't cause tens of thousands of dollars with of damage.

The hoses are also, usually, fairly easy and cheap to replace and are often replaced every 10 years or so and if you don't they usually fail.

This is not an apples to apples comparison in my opinion.

jumper

I appreciate ChrisJ's points. However there are premium hoses available. Like fluorosilicone or urethane. And in the boiler room you can replace them easily.