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X marks the spot

Gotta love the various surprises in the trades.
Gary Wilson
Wilson Services, Inc
Northampton, MA
www.wilsonph.com
[email protected]

Comments

  • TechmanTechman Posts: 2,144Member
    This way it provides for EXTRA good drainage.
  • GWGW Posts: 3,445Member
    Yes it's a good thing my guy didn't keep drilling, woulda been a problem for sure.
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    www.wilsonph.com
    [email protected]
  • unclejohnunclejohn Posts: 1,420Member
    What do they call that, knob and something wiring. Had to pull out a old air handler in a attic wall and the owner told me to be carful because of the old something and something wiring behind it. It was basically just bare copper wire wrapped around porcelain and strung through the attic. I came back after pulling out the old and sparky got back there and changed all that out. And then I put in the new equipment.
  • BobCBobC Posts: 4,997Member
    My garage had knob and tube wiring when I moved into this palace 34 years ago, there was none in the house and as far as I could tell there never was.

    Knob and tube wiring is safe AS LONG AS YOU DON'T MESS WITH IT; you should never try putting insulation over it. If you try to attach to it or modify it, you own it and it will become a problem.

    Bob
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
  • ChrisJChrisJ Posts: 10,121Member
    I agree with @BobC Knob and tube is perfectly safe unless people tamper with it.

    If I recall, you also cannot insulate it around it which stinks, but better than burning.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • EBEBRATT-EdEBEBRATT-Ed Posts: 6,040Member
    I'm also an electrician so I have had a few of these. You learn the hard way always:

    When drilling floor joists for romex always put your hand on the back side of the joist to check for wiring (remove hand b4 drilling). I learned the hard way now the wire you drilled through is to short to splice so now it's two boxes and two splices.

    Before cutting in an outlet box in a wall probe carefully with a coat hanger. There could be a cross brace or worse an existing box installed from the opposite side of the wall so you can't get the new box in.

    Cut a hole in a house once to put a through the wall ac in and found a steam riser that elbowed over into the space. (looked ok from the basement)

    Can't prevent all of the whoops but a small hole is easier to patch than a large one.

    Ed
  • icesailoricesailor Posts: 7,265Member
    Try grounding that stuff.

    If you are in a house that you find that stuff in the attic or cellar, and you find 3 prong receptacles, there might not be any ground to keep you safe.

    A wise person has one of those continuity plugs to check for proper polarity.
  • IronmanIronman Posts: 5,216Member
    One of the joys of doing mini splits: no matter how much measuring and exploratory poking you do, something like this shows up.

    As others have pointed out, the K&T is ok as long as it's not disturbed or insulated. It looks like this one had insulation blown in the walls. The HO should be made aware that this is a dangerous condition that could lead to a fire.
    Bob Boan


    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • JUGHNEJUGHNE Posts: 6,031Member
    Balloon framing probably. Houses that age did not have the standard headers above windows & doors. They laid a flat 2 X 4 for the top header and extended on either side to the closest studs. Cripple studs were added above to maintain spacing. The 3/4" sheathing on outside contributed to the structural integrity of the wall; but usually not enough hence plaster cracks above windows & doors.

    So something to watch for when close to a window is avoiding having to drill thru that flat "header" extending left & right. The same when trying to fish wires down a wall.

    Another caution on knob & tube wiring is that continuity of polarity was not observed. And the neutral may have been switch controlled and not the "hot". So even though the switch turns off the light, the hot wire is still at the light. And the load may use the neutral from another circuit adding to the mystery of troubleshooting and surprises.
  • IronmanIronman Posts: 5,216Member
    JUGHNE said:

    Balloon framing probably. Houses that age did not have the standard headers above windows & doors. They laid a flat 2 X 4 for the top header and extended on either side to the closest studs. Cripple studs were added above to maintain spacing. The 3/4" sheathing on outside contributed to the structural integrity of the wall; but usually not enough hence plaster cracks above windows & doors.

    So something to watch for when close to a window is avoiding having to drill thru that flat "header" extending left & right. The same when trying to fish wires down a wall.

    Another caution on knob & tube wiring is that continuity of polarity was not observed. And the neutral may have been switch controlled and not the "hot". So even though the switch turns off the light, the hot wire is still at the light. And the load may use the neutral from another circuit adding to the mystery of troubleshooting and surprises.

    Or with 3way switches, the neutral and hot go through both switches so that you end up with either two hots or two neutrals when the light is off. I was "enlightened" when I discovered that arrangement early in my electrical career.

    Bob Boan


    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • JUGHNEJUGHNE Posts: 6,031Member
    If you're on a dry wood floor and not near any grounded item, you may work on this and never know. It is when you introduce a ground when the enlightenment really happens. Basements or garages (concrete floor) are the most hazard.

    The non-contact voltage sensor was a great invention, it has saved many wire cutting tools and probably lives. It is always in my bib pocket. Though you can still fooled by feed back and other situations.
  • icesailoricesailor Posts: 7,265Member
    I showed my Greenlee Tick Tracer to someone who works as an electrician in a water plant. Fixing wiring issues. He told me he didn't need one. He had his Fluke "Wiggy" and Fluke Digital Amp Clamp. That's all he needed. And to be sure that the power was off at the source.

    I decided right then that he was someone to stand clear of.
  • Harvey RamerHarvey Ramer Posts: 2,200Member
    I drilled through a metal shop wall one time and right into an EMT lateral containing about a dozen conductors that was buried in the wall. There was no way to know. A volt alert doesn't work that well through grounded metal. I was drilling metal and the conduit was metal.

    I had to remove a couple sheets of metal siding to make a proper repair. Lousy,, but hey, we all do the best we can and when something like this comes up, we deal with it and move on.
    Ramer Mechanical
    ramermechanical.com
    To learn more about this professional, click here to visit their ad in Find A Contractor.
  • JUGHNEJUGHNE Posts: 6,031Member
    I came close to that situation the other day. What really helped from not having to patch sheetrock and not hit a conduit was inspection camera (6' flex probe). I bought it as sort of another toy for $99.00. But it has paid for itself many times over, even if my wife doesn't believe me.
  • GWGW Posts: 3,445Member
    Here's the final solution, just cover the hole.
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    www.wilsonph.com
    [email protected]
  • IronmanIronman Posts: 5,216Member
    The sconce or the mini Split?
    Bob Boan


    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • Harvey RamerHarvey Ramer Posts: 2,200Member
    GW said:

    Here's the final solution, just cover the hole.

    Off topic, But I like that trim around the windows. It's 1900's era and it's called Classical Craftsman. They missed it on the crown though. There should be about a 3.5" crown and right below, a 6" strip of wall painted the same color as the trim and then a picture rail to separate the main wall color from the 6" painted strip. That really looks classy!
    Ramer Mechanical
    ramermechanical.com
    To learn more about this professional, click here to visit their ad in Find A Contractor.
  • GWGW Posts: 3,445Member
    The wall unit. The window trim is original. We moved the unit about an inch or so to the right, amd down an inch or so.Yes I believe you can see the screw holes on top if you actually stand on a ladder.
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    www.wilsonph.com
    [email protected]
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