Threading pipe for slope

j a_2

When I threaded in my truck I even made sure I was on hill LOL.....And when I wanted off set threads I went to foreign pipe selling stores….Given enough lengths of it one could make a half circle…Some but not all supply houses sell such crap...

Charlie from wmass

I just adjust the tripod legs.

icesailor

EBEBRATT-Ed said:

Yeah. Here's the instructions and they do talk about a drip thread so the "DEAD MEN" must have done it

There's nothing in that PDF about "Crooked Threads". To make "crooked threads", you actually do a misapplication of the tool. Its really a case of experience and what you need to decide the amount of eccentricity you put on the rear centering collar. It is because the rear collar is off center that makes the thread "crooked".

ChrisJ

icesailor said:

EBEBRATT-Ed said:

Yeah. Here's the instructions and they do talk about a drip thread so the "DEAD MEN" must have done it

There's nothing in that PDF about "Crooked Threads". To make "crooked threads", you actually do a misapplication of the tool. Its really a case of experience and what you need to decide the amount of eccentricity you put on the rear centering collar. It is because the rear collar is off center that makes the thread "crooked".

You're right, that PDF doesn't mention it.
However, a scan of an older manual does mention it. I knew I didn't imagine it.

AJCimino

Allow me to bring this up. I was always under the impression that a pitch thread could only be cut with the 65R-C. However, when perusing the Ridgid catalog dated on the back cover June 1986, this caught my eye. When describing the 65R-TC it said "Easy adjustment for drip threads." Doing further research, I read that the work holder of the TC model has a screw in one of the holders that could be screwed in to throw the work holder off center and create a "drip thread." I never tried to cut a drip thread, but I know the option is there. Has anyone used a 65R-TC to do this? I remember that in the eighties J P Ward sold pitch elbows which had one side tapped to produce a 1/4" pitch per foot. They were identified by a small "p" in the casting. To my knowledge, these are no longer available.

EBEBRATT-Ed

@ ICE & CHRIS J Drip thread or crooked thread it's the same thing. It's right there in the PDF that I posted 3/01, same thing CHRISJ posted.

ChrisJ

AJCimino said:

Allow me to bring this up. I was always under the impression that a pitch thread could only be cut with the 65R-C. However, when perusing the Ridgid catalog dated on the back cover June 1986, this caught my eye. When describing the 65R-TC it said "Easy adjustment for drip threads." Doing further research, I read that the work holder of the TC model has a screw in one of the holders that could be screwed in to throw the work holder off center and create a "drip thread." I never tried to cut a drip thread, but I know the option is there. Has anyone used a 65R-TC to do this? I remember that in the eighties J P Ward sold pitch elbows which had one side tapped to produce a 1/4" pitch per foot. They were identified by a small "p" in the casting. To my knowledge, these are no longer available.

I had wondered what that screw was and suspected it was for drip threads but couldn't get anyone to confirm it!

EBEBRATT-Ed

@AJCIMINO don't know about the screw, will have to check my threader. I suspect the elbows you posted about were really cast iron drainage elbows used for plumbing

ChrisJ

EBEBRATT-Ed said:

@AJCIMINO don't know about the screw, will have to check my threader. I suspect the elbows you posted about were really cast iron drainage elbows used for plumbing

@EBEBRATT-Ed
My TC has the screw without a doubt.

AJCimino

Not to start an argument, but they were not cast iron drainage ells, which I believe are still available. The were cast iron fittings that were tapped on one end for pitch. They looked identical to the regular ells except for a small "p" on one end of the casting. The most common size that I used was the 1 1/4". After 36 yrs. in the business. I know of what I speak.

icesailor

I never saw a 65 TC with the screw. Maybe some do. There are so few that know what a crooked thread is that they probably discontinued it.

What I would say is that with the 65-TC, you can't make nipples with a nipple holder like you can with a 65-C. Because with the "C", the jaws are always aligned. The TC with the screw is always aligned but you use the screw to throw it off center.

My old dead boss had an old black R65-C and a new (1964) red R65-TC. (Ridgid tools were once black) We only used the black one for crooked threads. It seems to me that there were issues with the tool not ratcheting and jamming up if you weren't careful. Something that I never had with my 1976 Red R65-C.

AJCimino

However, you can make nipples with the 65R-TC. I have done it many times. I first tried it when I read in the aforementioned catalog that with the 65R-C that a 2" coupling would be accommodated to make a close nipple. After reading that I tried with my 65R-TC and it worked. The work holder can be adjusted to hold the coupling, but it has to be the steel coupling that comes on the end of a 21' length of pipe. You are right when you said that its cheaper to buy the nipples, but when in a jam making a nipple is an option. I have a black 65R that i bought on ebay as a collectible, and you are right, they are not jam proof. I believe the 65R-TC's still have the screw. There are so many things that these tools can do that are not explained by the manufacturers. In the 1991 Ridgid catalog, there is no mention of drip threads or couplings to make close nipples.

icesailor

There are certain lengths of nipples that you can't make with a R65-TC. Its in whatever range that the coupling is in the chuck. As long as the coupling or nipple is centered in the rear chuck and you can lock it down, it will work. Its making "Crooked Threads" where the R65-C shines. You just turn the rear collar so it isn't centered. How much off comes with experience as to how aggressive you want to be.

ChrisJ

icesailor said:

There are certain lengths of nipples that you can't make with a R65-TC. Its in whatever range that the coupling is in the chuck. As long as the coupling or nipple is centered in the rear chuck and you can lock it down, it will work. Its making "Crooked Threads" where the R65-C shines. You just turn the rear collar so it isn't centered. How much off comes with experience as to how aggressive you want to be.

You can set the chuck to a larger size to hold the coupler when making nipples.

The TC can make drip threads by adjusting the screw, which as far as I know, all of them have. Mine certainly does and all of the pictures I've found on Ebay have them as well.

If all TCs do have the screw, and it appears going at least back to the 1980s they do, I see no reason the 65R-C would be superior at doing it? The more you turn that screw, the more the threads are off center?

icesailor

My old dead boss was a clever dude. He loved his heat and loved to run pipe He had a new R65-TC that he bought in 1964. It didn't have any screw. He bought the tools of an old retired plumber. He had a couple of geared threader's. The only one we ever used was the old black one. No one wanted to use it because you could jam it. My old dead boss was a guy that looked at things and asked why is that there? Why would they put that on that thing. There has to be a reason.

My supply house provided us with a 400 and then a 300 power drive and all the diestocks cutters and reamers we needed. No 65 -TC or 65-C diestocks. Just the individual ones. Rather than set up for a couple of threads, I brought my own stuff. My reamer was sharp. My dies were sharp. The pin in MY reamer wasn't broken off so you couldn't ream pipe. I knew how to use the equipment. Most others did not.

HINT from a old alive guy:

When threading pipe, use oil. Lots of it. Put it on the OUTSIDE of the pipe, not the inside. The threads are on the outside, not the inside. The oil belongs in the catch bucket. Not on the inside of the pipe. Pitch the pipe so that oil runs out the threaded end. Not the other end.

Ask the Steamheads what happens to boilers that have lots of oil inside the pipe.

EBEBRATT-Ed

@AJ CIMINO then I stand corrected on the elbows, I have never seen those so I assumed they were plumbing elbows, My mistake.

AJCimino

You can make any size nipple with the 65R-TC. I have made close to 7". You simply slide the coupling past the work holder and lock the pipe with the work holder. The two threaded ends will tighten and eventually the thread will be cut. The die head on pipe is restricted to about an 8" nipple, but with the coupling, you can go down to a close. On the 2" size , you must use a steel coupling for the work holder to grasp it or for it to slide through the work holder. On smaller sizes, you can use a malleable coupling as the work holder will fit around it or it will slide through the work holder. However, you can run into trouble with the malleable coupling because the threads are tapered and may get too tight to unloosen; hence the steel coupling which has electrical threads (no taper). These straight threads tend to unloosen much easier. As stated, this is not an ideal solution, but its a trick to keep in mind when you are in a jam. Finally, i have several TC's and RC's neither one is superior to the other, and both prety much do the same thing. The TC for me is faster to set on the pipe because of the cam action of the work holder. The first one i got (a TC) was from an old heating man who purchased it in the sixties and it has the screw.

AJCimino

Not to monopolize the discussion, but I'm posting these pictures because Ice reminded me that I bought this threader a few years back. A lot of what Ice says brings back memories from old timers I knew who are no longer around. Ridgid 400's and Ridgid 200's were in all the supply houses to use if you were in a jam. Many old plumbers used only 12 r dies with their power drives, because on a boiler change out, they got the job done quicker than adjusting the 65's for every size. But the 65's to me always produced a superior thread, and made the machine work less hard because of the "High Speed Dies." A lot of times the 12r's tore the threads especially when backing off. I would always back off one or two revolutions by hand and apply cutting oil even on the back off. It seemed to help.

ChrisJ

icesailor said:

My old dead boss was a clever dude. He loved his heat and loved to run pipe He had a new R65-TC that he bought in 1964. It didn't have any screw. He bought the tools of an old retired plumber. He had a couple of geared threader's. The only one we ever used was the old black one. No one wanted to use it because you could jam it. My old dead boss was a guy that looked at things and asked why is that there? Why would they put that on that thing. There has to be a reason.

My supply house provided us with a 400 and then a 300 power drive and all the diestocks cutters and reamers we needed. No 65 -TC or 65-C diestocks. Just the individual ones. Rather than set up for a couple of threads, I brought my own stuff. My reamer was sharp. My dies were sharp. The pin in MY reamer wasn't broken off so you couldn't ream pipe. I knew how to use the equipment. Most others did not.

HINT from a old alive guy:

When threading pipe, use oil. Lots of it. Put it on the OUTSIDE of the pipe, not the inside. The threads are on the outside, not the inside. The oil belongs in the catch bucket. Not on the inside of the pipe. Pitch the pipe so that oil runs out the threaded end. Not the other end.

Ask the Steamheads what happens to boilers that have lots of oil inside the pipe.

So, because a TC from 1964 didn't have a screw none of them can?

Come on, @icesailor

Obviously in the 1980s they had them so don't you think it's time to get within the past 30 years?

ChrisJ

For oiling, I use one of these loaded with Ridigid Nu-Clear oil.




Obviously if you do a lot of threading owning one of the Ridgid setups is nice, but for us homeowners they're a bit much. I use an old pot to catch the oil and then filter it through coffee filters.

icesailor

ChrisJ said:

icesailor said:

My old dead boss was a clever dude. He loved his heat and loved to run pipe He had a new R65-TC that he bought in 1964. It didn't have any screw. He bought the tools of an old retired plumber. He had a couple of geared threader's. The only one we ever used was the old black one. No one wanted to use it because you could jam it. My old dead boss was a guy that looked at things and asked why is that there? Why would they put that on that thing. There has to be a reason.

My supply house provided us with a 400 and then a 300 power drive and all the diestocks cutters and reamers we needed. No 65 -TC or 65-C diestocks. Just the individual ones. Rather than set up for a couple of threads, I brought my own stuff. My reamer was sharp. My dies were sharp. The pin in MY reamer wasn't broken off so you couldn't ream pipe. I knew how to use the equipment. Most others did not.

HINT from a old alive guy:

When threading pipe, use oil. Lots of it. Put it on the OUTSIDE of the pipe, not the inside. The threads are on the outside, not the inside. The oil belongs in the catch bucket. Not on the inside of the pipe. Pitch the pipe so that oil runs out the threaded end. Not the other end.

Ask the Steamheads what happens to boilers that have lots of oil inside the pipe.

So, because a TC from 1964 didn't have a screw none of them can?

Come on, @icesailor

Obviously in the 1980s they had them so don't you think it's time to get within the past 30 years?

Oh please. That's not what I said nor was I implying that.

icesailor

ChrisJ said:

For oiling, I use one of these loaded with Ridigid Nu-Clear oil.




Obviously if you do a lot of threading owning one of the Ridgid setups is nice, but for us homeowners they're a bit much. I use an old pot to catch the oil and then filter it through coffee filters.

If you use an oiler like that, it has always been suggested to use light oil. The dark oil is said to contain more Sulpher and that helps with the higher temperatures of machine friction.

It says so right on a quart can with the spout.

AJCimino

Maybe I can shed more light on the subject. I have a Ridgid catalog from I believe 1968. It also makes note of drip threads and couplings with the 65R's. So we are at least that far back. An interesting thing that I forgot to mention was that these threaders came as one handle or two handle. I have seen two handle models for sale on ebay, but never purchased one. In the description, mention is made of a 65R-P threader that is discontinued. I have no idea what model that would be. The black one that I have is model 65R-C. Again, I don't know what the letters mean. Also on the page, one can find replacement dies for a "Poster" threader, again I have never seen one so I am clueless as to how it worked. I think it was the forerunner to the 65 series. I noticed that it had separate dies for two inch pipe. Another threader was the 504 quick opening threader that mimics the action of the carriage mounted 811. I have several of these and they are very quick when using them on a power drive. I believe they were discontinued in the nineties. Ridgid also made a 502 that was the little brother to the 504 (I have a few of these and they are handy little threaders.) It threaded 1/2" and 3/4" pipe and was discontinued in 1972 or 1974. Mention is made of it on page 9 under the description of the 504. You can find these from time to time on ebay. Finally, on page 16, we have descriptions of the 400 and 200 both no longer made. There is a brand new 400a for sale on ebay if anyone is so inclined. The two hundred would accommodate the carriage for the 811 die heads, but the 400 would not, one of the reasons it was discontinued, but that is a story for another day. I think the history lesson is over for the day.

icesailor

The 65 "R" was for Ratchet. The "C" was for centering. "TC" was for True Centering.

400's had 4 legs and you could get wheels for the back legs. You could hurt yourself trying to lug a 400. A 200 was heavy and expensive. It would take the threading tool accessories like the 300. The 300 basically replaced the 200 and the 400, which is a more powerful machine. A 400 will drive a geared threader well. A 300 works a little harder. The 300 has a nice accessory for old weak farts that goes into the chuck and hooks to the two work bars. When you fold up the legs, it becomes wheeled and you steer it with the legs like an oar on a boat. If you have mower ramps for your trucks, it makes it easier to move it around and into the trucks.

FWIW

bob_46

Drunk thread

ChrisJ

icesailor said:

The 65 "R" was for Ratchet. The "C" was for centering. "TC" was for True Centering.

400's had 4 legs and you could get wheels for the back legs. You could hurt yourself trying to lug a 400. A 200 was heavy and expensive. It would take the threading tool accessories like the 300. The 300 basically replaced the 200 and the 400, which is a more powerful machine. A 400 will drive a geared threader well. A 300 works a little harder. The 300 has a nice accessory for old weak farts that goes into the chuck and hooks to the two work bars. When you fold up the legs, it becomes wheeled and you steer it with the legs like an oar on a boat. If you have mower ramps for your trucks, it makes it easier to move it around and into the trucks.

FWIW

Are you sure the R isn't for Receding?

bob_46

Drunken thread . I have my 50 year pin from the UA and I have never cut a drunken thread on purpose....Hic...Hic

EBEBRATT-Ed

Bob,
"Botched Slopshod"," Alledged Steamfitters", "Drunken Threads"

Love that book, what book is that??

@AJCIMINO, your absolutley right about the 65s putting less strain on the machine and cutting better threads.

I just get tired of picking the thing up!

bob_46

Audel's Home Heating Guide first book I bought, must have been in 61 I think .

AJCimino

Bob, that books looks priceless. It makes mention of pitch fittings as I mentioned before. I knew i hadn't cracked up yet. Also when the text mentions the drip, it brings me back to the first day I worked with a man named Tony Defazio, a very well versed heating man. We were working on a steam system that had quite a banging in one second floor radiator. Others had been there to no avail. He looked at the piping in the basement and realized the run out from the main to the riser was pitched backward. We broke the elbow at the bottom of the riser and put in a 1 1/4" x 3/4" x1 1/4" tee and ran a line from the bottom of the tee back to the wet return. The problem was solved and he uttered the words that have stayed with me until today: "Buddy, with steam remember to catch the drip." Besides Dan's high pressure goes to low pressure, nothing has proven more true.

Charlie from wmass

According to the Audels book that should have been a full 1 1/4" tee with a reducing coupling below the waterline. Audel also says my way of making short nipples is wrong as I use the thread protector as my chuck. I grew up reading Audels and Starbucks.

AJCimino

Tee was installed at base of riser and dripped with 3/4" pipe to wet return. In spite of Audel it worked flawlessly. I remember Starbucks. I still have a reprint of their illustrated drainage and venting guide under the glass protector on my desk.

bob_46

When I used the 65 on a machine I always cut the first thread by hand , there was a good reason but I can't remember what it was .

EBEBRATT-Ed

Probably just to make sure die was centered on the pipe. Especially when using it on 1-1 1/2"

icesailor

EBEBRATT-Ed said:

Probably just to make sure die was centered on the pipe. Especially when using it on 1-1 1/2"

And 1", 1 1/4",1 1/2" and 2". Nothing pisses you off more than when the diestock slips forward and drops off the pipe when you start the machine.

EBEBRATT-Ed

Yeah, and if you smash the dies (not cheap) you will be even more pissed.

icesailor

EBEBRATT-Ed said:

Yeah, and if you smash the dies (not cheap) you will be even more pissed.

Never done that.

EBEBRATT-Ed

I think those threders do a good job, just wish they weren't so heavy. Nobody at our place will use them cept me and they are not interested in them in the least. Another one of Ed's antique tools they say. I like one in my truck cause it covers 4 sizes and it sure is easier to thread by hand than a 12R if you have too. I don't do 1 1/2 or 2" without bringing it with me---even if only to have for a back-up.
12R not so bad 1 1/4" and down.

Charlie from wmass

Heavy? Lmao 61R Beaver is approaching heavy.

EBEBRATT-Ed

Had an old OSTER 435 that was heavy. I'm just complaining cause I'm old.