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What's wrong with steam pipe setup?

what's wrong with this setup? I asked a similar yet a broad question, and got comments instead of advise/answers.

So let's try it this way.

Comments

  • BobC
    BobC Member Posts: 5,477
    What setup?

    Bob
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 5,736
    Here is a link to the OP's original post with pictures.
    http://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/153801/remodeling-a-basement-steam-return-question#latest
    The items you are viewing as comments in some way are advice, but I will break it down based on what I see and what others have said. You have some work that needs done that doesn't relate to your original question. I would suggest you either find a steam expert to come in and evaluate your system for problems or if you are handy and what to tackle the work yourself we could possibly help you work out what is wrong. Here are the few things I noticed.
    1. Copper should not be used for any steam carrying line
    2. It's hard to tell which way the flow of steam is supposed to go in your pictures, but you need to check the slope of ALL pipes in the system.
    3. There is a reducer where your pipe transitions to copper, if the flow is towards the copper this is wrong because water will back up behind that reducer. Either the reducer should go 9most likely) or it needs changed to an eccentric reducer.
    4. The piping at the boiler itself is wrong. For sure at the return/equalizer piping.
    5. Can't tell from the pics, but you could have a return pipe/water level issue as was suggested.

    Have you tried the find a contractor link on this site? Where are you located we may be able to recommend a steam expert. Whoever put the copper on your steam lines is definitely NOT a steam expert and you shouldn't let them touch this system again...IMHO.
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
    Jackuvtradesicesailor
  • Jackuvtrades
    Jackuvtrades Member Posts: 17
    KC_Jones said:

    Here is a link to the OP's original post with pictures.
    http://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/153801/remodeling-a-basement-steam-return-question#latest

    1. Copper should not be used for any steam carrying line
    2. It's hard to tell which way the flow of steam is supposed to go in your pictures, but you need to check the slope of ALL pipes in the system.
    3. There is a reducer where your pipe transitions to copper, if the flow is towards the copper this is wrong because water will back up behind that reducer. Either the reducer should go 9most likely) or it needs changed to an eccentric reducer.
    4. The piping at the boiler itself is wrong. For sure at the return/equalizer piping.
    5. Can't tell from the pics, but you could have a return pipe/water level issue as was suggested.

    Have you tried the find a contractor link on this site? Where are you located we may be able to recommend a steam expert. Whoever put the copper on your steam lines is definitely NOT a steam expert and you shouldn't let them touch this system again...IMHO.

    Thank you for the advice. I am handy enough to do the recommended fixes. The repairs in the pictures were done via a plumber that I really prefer not to deal with him or anyone else.

    My first plans are to separate the 2 legs of the steam supply. Lines. Where the circle back and meet, to feed the wet/dry return. The Left line of the steam supply is doing most of the heating, where as the right leg presently only feeds 4 radiators, after that it takes 4' run, then 90 degree left turn only to run another 25' to catch the return. I think most of the water hammer issues are arising from that, I am considering removing the 90 degree turn with 2" x ¾" 90 and place a vent 4" above the fitting. should I put a T in this lead and let it branch back to the wet return?


    regarding the wet return, is it worth it to drop the entire return line below the minimum fill line of the boiler? At present thats how it is, and was before any work was done.


    What steps are needed to properly address the hartford loop errors?


    One more thing, since the repairs the leg leg of the leads seems to be working, much more efficiently, causing the 2nd story of the house to become "Too Hot" what should i be thinking right now? Thermostats for each radiator or something else?



    Why can't copper be used in a supply line?? At my work, we had a system installed circa, 1992 and they haven't had an issue.

  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 5,736
    They installed a brand new steam system in 1992? That would be quite unusual. Soldered copper joints typically don't last with the expansion and contraction that steam causes. On a hot water system the piping temp can stay somewhat stable and even if there was a cold start the temperatures aren't as hot as steam. So the pipes can go from stone cold or even just warm to steam hot instantly. With the expansion rate of copper it puts tremendous stress on the copper joints. I remember reading a while back an analogy. Take a soldered copper pipe joint and sit in your living room and flex it with your hand and keep doing that hundreds of times eventually you will be able to break it with your hand. So if you can do that with your hand imagine the stress the steam is putting on it. Just to clarify is this one pipe or 2 pipe system? I don't recall reading that in your original post. My honest opinion about the Hartford loop from what I can see. Tear it all out and start over. The tee that comes off the boiler is wrong and it shouldn't be connected into the Hartford loop. You will probably get more comments from others when they see this. Perhaps someone sees something that I don't. Some of your pics it's really hard to follow what is going on so I can't really advise on some of your comments.
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
    Jackuvtrades