What else can I try!!!! UGH!!! LOCKOUT>

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billtwocase

Sounds like an SS-2.

billtwocase

Does the venter have 1 or 2 fans in it?

icesailor

Without a proper draft control on a Power Venter, you can NEVER have properly consistent draft. I didn't know that AO Smith was making oil power venter's. Tjernlund had a lot of problems in the beginning, and Field still has issues. Are you sure that this AO Smith PV is listed for oil? It may be listed for gas and not oil.

Either way,

Someone else's poor planning or mistakes don't constitute an emergency on your part.

You've put a lot of time and effort to try to solve someone else's FU. Just because the onsite conditions made someone make a decision to install the boiler/venter without a Draft Control, as required by the UL Listing, doesn't mean that you have to keep proving that you can fix it. Weil-McLain sends a draft control with that boiler. They have sent draft controls with every boiler I have ever installed. They (Weil-McLain) even bought a manufacturer of draft controls (Effikal) and provided them in the accessory box, so they didn't have to buy them from Field. Many of us threw the Effikal controllers in the corner or trash because we prefer the Field RC's. Because we found the RC's were more sensitive and worked better.

What did you set the electrode assembly with? A ruler? They make special gages to use to properly set the spacing's and gaps. Somewhere here, there's someone with a similar problem with a WTGO Gold. It has a Carlin EZ1. Carlin gives away a yellow plastic nozzle/electrode spacing jig. In MY experience, no matter how experienced you are or think you are, you can NOT set the wires as accurately with a ruler and eye as you can by using the yellow plastic jig. They make another red one for other Carlin burners. Between those two, you can set most any modern burner if you have the experience to know what you are doing.

This string has gone on for over a month. Are you going to get paid for all this work? Or do you consider it you paying them to fix their equipment installed wrong by others. While you learn.

There's never enough time to do it right. But always time for someone else to do it over. That "someone else" shouldn't be expected to perform miracles. If there isn't room for a correctly installed draft control, move the Power Venter. Or move the boiler.

icesailor

"" Weil mclain gold pwtg0-4
It has ao smith power venter model f48r80c77
Has a small damper on front.
There is a fresh air intake (fresh air, air boot) ""

Wait a minute. You said that it was a A.O Smith Power Venter and now you say it is a Tjernlund Side Shot. A SS-1 doesn't have a damper on the front nor does a SS-2.

A check of the A.O. Smith Web Site does not show that they sell or offer a oil Power Venter. Only gas PV'ers for their gas appliances. Gas PV'ers are different animals than Oil ones. Tjernlund SS-1's and 2's can be used on gas and oil.

If someone before you improperly installed a gas PV'er on oil equipment, the PV wasn't designed for the corrosive oil combustion

icesailor

I don't want to pick on you, but I fear that you are in way over your head on this one.

You do not even have the experience to know what you are looking at. That A. O. Smith number you gave as the Power Venter number ( f48r80c77) is for a motor manufactured by A.O. Smith for sale to anyone that wants to use that specific motor.

I don't know what you have because "Side Shots", SS-1's have the motor located outside the fan, and SS-2's are located INSIDE the box. You must have a SS-1. That "Damper" on the front of the housing is what restricts the air flow through the PV and is adjustable for the firing rate, to be determined by the outside wind speed. A SS-1 MUST be run with a draft control.

This IS a good way to get experience if you remember how to use it, and get paid for your time. Its hard to get paid enough for fixing the mistakes of others.

ffheat

My friend thought it was a ao smith when he was dictating the numbers to me.
it is a SS-2. it has a small @2 1/2 - 3 inch damper on front.

Just going over all manuals, we have concluded that if it goes out again we will rip that pv apart for deep cleaning and set post run to 8 min. There is a sensor in the pv that we are thinking might not be sending back to primary an all clear after evac. Hence why it goes into lock out before the pv even starts.

if it runs to warmer weather a deep clean is the plan. if it goes out again that cleaning will be earlier.

I don't want to do anything now for I really want to know what is going on so with it running fine now,,,,,,,, we will not touch it.

Yes I agreed it was not the best install but it is what we have to work with.

Thanks for everything guys! Big help

billtwocase

Just a heads up. There is the vent motor for exhaust, and a small fan that cools the unit itself. Careful when you pull the front off for any reason, for the fan wires will come apart, and the thermal limit will continuously trip. ask me how I know this. The draft baffle is done by knob inside on the SS-2, the SS-1 is done with the pyramid cone outside

billtwocase

I would set it for a -.06 at the breach, and no more than a -.02 overfire draft

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ffheat

Thanks Billtwocase.
I am sure that will be very useful.

icesailor

billtwocase said:

I would set it for a -.06 at the breach, and no more than a -.02 overfire draft

How can you do that without a draft regulator control?

It's like trying to drive a truck with one front tire missing.

Two wrongs don't make it right.

It was broken before it was commissioned into operation. If you can't correct the deficiencies, or the owner won't allow you to do it, you'd be better off walking. You touch it, you own it. If the original installer didn't follow the instructions in the manufacturers I/O manual, its is technically a unlisted and illegal installation.

Whatever.

Knock yourself out.

You can rest assured that the lowest price did that job. Welcome to that club.

billtwocase

If you read his early post Ice, there is a draft control on it already.

billtwocase

ffheat said:

Its s side shot,

Has a small damper on front.

While it's running if I force the damper all the way open. I get my-2 over the fire.

That's why if it goes out again we are ripping that thing apart for a deep clean.

We are just doing one thing at a time to see what the problem was.



It is still running as of now

icesailor

Maybe. I understood that this application was in a crawl space and there was no room for a RC between the boiler and the PV. It has to be a SS1 because he got the motor numbers off the exposed motor. The SS2 is inside and he would have pulled the wires out when he pulled the front off. I never installed a SS2. I didn't like them. They were too limited.

So, it is a SS-1. The only way you can control the draft with a SS1 is to move the end baffle in to a lower firing rate. Which some have done when there isn't enough make up air. And during long post purges will recycle air through the combustion chamber and through the burner.

Is it perhaps an older SS-1? One without the control upgrade? Does he know to drop the cover in the wire connection box to see if it has the new digital circuit board with the LED lights that give you a code for drop outs? The instructions give the LED fault codes. You can have serious wiring conflicts with SS-1's and electronic burner controls. Especially when wired improperly.

With all SS1's, if the burner motor start & run amperage is over a certain amperage and connected with the PV fan motor, it is supposed to be run through a separate relay. Where the motor lead operates the relay, then starts the burner. Its in the manual.

PV'er's get a bad rap. Most are installed improperly by people that don't bother reading instructions, and don't understand what they read. Then, when there's a problem, they blame the equipment. I personally preferred to use a SS1 in stead of a 150 YO unlined chimney with draft issues. A chimney like I saw the other night on that TV show "Flipping Boston" where there was a boiler flue chimney that was at least 8' tall out of the back roof with a serious list to the North (or whichever point of a compass. Now, everyone wants to use beer cooler boilers hung on a wall with air dryer blower motors pushing the sidewall venting. Its still being done wrong often, but Power vented sidewall venting is looked on as a pariah, while direct vented boilers are a fine thing.

What happened.

billtwocase

I also prefer the SS-1 Ice, as long as someone has left some room for motor assembly removal. That is rare

ffheat

Great info ice,
Thank you

icesailor

I never worked on a SS-2. The only one I worked on, I replaced with a SS-1 because of the wind issues. Bill says that there is a small damper on the front of the SS-2. You say that if you hold the damper wide open with your finger, you can get -.02 draft over the fire. If you can't get the damper to stay wide open, you need to figure out why it isn't staying open. Lack of make-up air comes to mind.

Don't forget. You're trying to fix the nightmare of the one that came before you. I've had SS1's improve with outside air boxes for the burner so the burner was getting its combustion air from outside, and not arguing with the PV'er for precious combustion air sources. Another thing to look at on any fan is the accumulation of dust and debris on the underside of the squirrel cage blades. That cuts way down on how much air the fan can deliver. If the edges get rusty and rough. If you have a oil burner in a cellar where animals hang out, animal dander will catch on the fan blades. You'd be amazed at how much it slows down the airflow. If you test a burner with a DA before you clean it, just clean the dander off the fan, and test again, you will be amazed at the increase of air flow. Shown on the analyzer.

Or, why you can't properly clean 8 oil boilers in an 8 hour day. Unless it is just a brush and buff job.

Mark_

Hi guys,

I am not sure if this topis is closed. I am new to the forums, but have AO Smith oil burner motor forced combustion.
It started making weird noises recently when I turn on the heat, it seems it is vibrating inside the motor and I am not sure if I need to replace it completely or try to open and see if something is loose.
Thank you very much

HVACNUT

You should start a new thread. From the main site, at the bottom of the page you'll see a globe, star, pencil. Click on the pencil to start a new discussion.
Post some pics if you can.