Taco HEC-2 (Bumblebee)

JOSYS36

Just writing to see what everyone's success has been with these. I have had two fail in the last year with the second being just this past Saturday night. The first failed after 2 weeks of being installed, and did what I can only describe as having a fit. The built in display with be going crazy, and the circ itself would be VERY slowly running. I would have to kill the power and then restart to get it to work properly. Taco replaced that one without question, but I never did hear back on why it died. The second (this past Sat) died without warning at all. Just would not power up. Since it was Sat evening when it did this I had to go and get a 0015-IFC to replace it. Quite frankly I'm more impressed with the 0015 then I have been with the HEC-2. I can very easily see why they already have a replacement for the HEC-2.

Tom_133

I don't think you are alone, I put in 2 and customers hated how noisy they were. Taco even got away from them and moved to the Viridian. I love the idea of maintaining the delta T I design but not at the cost of reliability.

JOSYS36

Yea I can sure attest to them being more noisy, but that was OK with me since the electric bill went way down using them. But, if they are going to fail on me at his rate they are not worth it. The 0015 is MUCH quieter and hopefully will be more reliable. The company that I bought the HEC-2s from is going to send me another 0015 and then refund me the difference between the two. Now I just have to sell another HEC-2. Either that or keep it around as a spare. Not sure what I'm going to do yet.

Jimbo_5

And I thought it was just me. I had one suddenly fail after fluttering uncontrollably. Granted it was a bit noiser than expected, but other than when in the boiler room in the basement, no one really noticed. All of a sudden it seemed to take on a life of its own. For now, I pulled it out and replaced it with a spare 3-speed Grunfos I had on the bench leftover from another job. I now have to decide how best to replace it with one that I can accurately control and be reliable, too.

JOSYS36

Yea and if you hear Taco talk they have NEVER heard of any problems. The lady I spoke with was totally off guard when I told her I had already sent in one failed pump. So I'm not happy that I was lied to as well.

Steve Thompson (Taco)

JOSYS36 - are you suggesting we say we never have any problems and lie to our customers?????

Exactly who did you talk to and when...

Jimbo_5

As of right now, I am done with them, for obvious reasons. And overall Taco has become questionable. Sad to say this after all these years here in NYC.

Harvey Ramer

Taco is a good company, an American company. They make many good products that last for many years. I have found their service and support impeccable. I use their products daily.

If you don't like the bumblebee, don't buy it. I have several in service for quite some time with no issues. I use many other manufacturers products as well. If I have an issue with a product, I just use something else in it's place.

Taco has done tremendous work to advance the hydronic industry. Training, products, awareness, etc...

They have my support.

AlCorelliNY

I have six of them in my house right now.
Love my Bumblebees.

jonny88

Very easy to come here and knock a product.I never had a problem with customer service and always found them helpful.Take a look at some of the pics the pros post here like Gennedy,Rich etc and you will see they use the product,I guess they are all wrong.? How was the the piping before and after circ?,everything grounded?.I have a Grundfos Alpha in my house which works fine but will be using the Bumblebee on my next job without hesitation.Just my two cents.

FranklinD

I replaced a 007 that came on my new boiler with an HEC-2 and I haven't had any problems. I will admit that it is a little noisy when wound out to full speed, but that's okay as I don't live in my boiler room (well, at least I don't sleep in there -- haha).

As with any product, especially in the world of electronics, it's possible to get a dud or two. Also, every installation is unique in terms of power supply, control strategy, water quality, run time, etc.

I've used Taco's products, their Flo-Pro university, and many other resources on their website...I wish more companies were as helpful as they are when it comes to figuring out which of their products to use in a given situation.

I've also enjoyed Steve Thompson's posts and replies on this forum. He always seems more than happy (and willing) to look into any issues that arise in the field, and follows up quickly. I know I would have zero qualms about buying more equipment from Taco in the future.

DanHolohan

Steve Thompson (Taco) said:

JOSYS36 - are you suggesting we say we never have any problems and lie to our customers?????

Exactly who did you talk to and when...

Yes, if a person writes something like that here on The Wall he or she should step up and give the details. Taco is about the most reputable company I know. What I don't know is who this person with the knickname is.

Steve Thompson (Taco)

Details are asked for so here they are: (FYI, these are the same as with my posts on previous blogs):

This is what we know. Depending on the installation (if it is subjected to harmonics i.e. pipes anchored to an area that can amplify noise), or a quiet area of the home where any noise is easily heard an audible noise can be detected, from the electronics. This was brought to our attention about 6 to 8 months ago - at which time we did a thorough analysis of the what, where, and why. As noted in some previous posts, most installations are see acceptable sound levels.

When we found this out we were in alpha testing of the Bee replacement (VT 2218) - we made a conscious decision to not spend any R & D resources to fix the noise knowing the VT 2218 was not too far out (we used this experience to make the VT 2218 even better).

Bottom line, does the Bee meet Taco's sound level criteria (39 dB)? No. Is it "good enough" in most installations? Most installers believe so (we're still selling a lot of these until the VT 2218 is ready for release). Will replacing a problem Bee with a new Bee solve the problem - probably not (depending on the issue). Replacing with the new VT 2218 will absolutely fix the problem.

I (we) have no issues posting details to clarify things that go wrong - never have, never will. BUT, the single, most hurtful thing I've read in the list of posts is the suggestion someone from Taco lied.

If someone in Tech Services or Customer Services doesn't know or gives anyone the impression they lied it's an internal communication issue here at Taco, one that I take sole responsibility for. If my product development team and I do not feed the information up to these honest, hard working, unsung heroes, shame on me (Tech and Customer Services in ANY company are unsung heroes in my opinion).

Sorry - got to go back to shoveling snow now :-).

DanHolohan

I've never known anyone at Taco to be anything other than honest. Please step up with your story about lying, JOSYS36. I'm waiting.

Ironman

I'd like to say that although I haven't used a lot of the Bumblebee circ's, I've had no issues with the ones that I have other than the noise level being a litte higher than a standard wet rotor. So far, that's not been an issue, but I've experienced that with all the Taco delta T pumps.

As far as Taco's reputation goes, I have to agree with Harvey and the others that it's been outstanding. I don't know of any manufacturer in this business that has done more to help the trade through free education and design tools than Taco. John Barbra's on line seminars are priceless and cost us nothing but the time to listen.

Any manufacture can have issues with their products from time to time. It's how they handle the issues that counts. Steve has been forthright in acknowledging the sound issue. The company has honored their warranty without hesitation. They've come out with a better designed circ (the VT 2218). So, what warrants the aspersions that you two anonymous gentlemen have cast at them?

DanHolohan

So right, Bob. It's this claim he's making that he was lied to that gets me going. He's anonymous and saying this. You make statements like that, you should man-up and give details. State your case with facts. Don't hit, run and hide.

JOSYS36

OK here is what I can tell you. As far as who I spoke with I do not have a name. If she did give it in the beginning of the call, then I don't remember it. I should have written it down in the beginning of the call, but never anticipated having any problems.

1. I was told by who I spoke with that there have never been any incidences of this circ having issues. I know this to be untrue since I sent one failed circ in! I tried to give who I was talking with the incident number, and she could not find it. I still have the original emails from the first circ failure. She kept telling me that the number from the email was too long and then said she could not find it since I was giving her the number from the email. All of this I had a hard time believing. After all this I was told to just call who I bought it from since it's under 3 year warranty and there was nothing they could do to help me. A very stark contrast from when I called in a year ago and I was assisted very well! When I informed her that I knew she was not being totally honest with me is when she started to give me attitude. At that point I knew I was not going to get anywhere and ended the call. I have no further information on the call except for what I have stated above. In her defense she might, and I say might, have been trying to tell me that SHE has never had any incidences with hec-2 failures, but that is not what she stated. All I can tell you is that, again, I was told that there have been no incidences of this circ having failures. That is untrue since I already sent one bad one in.

2. I am asserting that this circ model is flawed and that Taco knows it. I could understand that I would have have one dud. Duds happen in manufacturing and I can totally forgive that. But, I've had 2 in a year and a month, and from what I've been reading on the net there are other people who have had failures. A small amount I can sure again understand, but there are too many for me to be comfortable with this model again. Your mileage will vary, and it's your money, but I won't be investing in these again. I'm sorry that my failures bother you, but that does not change what happened here. And, I had to fix the last one at 8:30 at night with no one I can call. I had to run and buy myself a 0015 and whip that in. That is the joy of being in a rural environment with few qualified people I can get in contact with. So yes I need to be very picky about anything I do here so that it will be reliable and durable. I use that same standard for everything.

3. I am NOT stating that Taco is a bad company, that their customer service is bad, or that their products are all bad. If I had felt that I would not have installed a Taco 0015. I would have installed something else.

4. If this post is a problem you can feel free to delete it. It won't bother me in the least.

DanHolohan

Thank you for stepping up. Were you speaking to a woman who works at Taco in Cranston, RI or a woman who works for a Taco rep?

JOSYS36

I spoke directly with an individual at Taco's customer support number in Cranston, RI. Just like I did a year ago with the first failure.

DanHolohan

How about telling me your name and company? You can email it to me is you don't want to say it here: dan@heatinghelp.com.

I've been running this site for a very long time, and have had times when an employee of a manufacturer's competitor or one of the competitor's reps comes on here and posts complaints anonymously. Let me know who you are so I look into this further. Thanks.

JOSYS36

My name is Jason Olson and I'm not with a company. Just a homeowner that has to do most of his work on his own due to my location. I'm a computer systems engineer and come from both that background and also a background in electronics. I live in Rural IL on the bank of the Mississippi River.

DanHolohan

Thanks, Jason. You'll see that I haven't deleted any of your posts. How can I help you? What would you like done?

JOSYS36

At this point there is nothing to do. The supply house I purchased from has sent me another 0015, and I sent the bad HEC-2 back to them. The first one I sent back to Taco themselves. So this Saturday AM I will remove the other working HEC-2 and replace with the 0015 sent by the supply house. The supply house also said they would refund me the difference between the two circs as the HEC-2 was more expensive. On top of that they paid for shipping both ways which is something they initially said they would not do. So, with all that, I'll have one HEC-2 sitting here with nothing to do. I would like to re-sell it if at all possible and would probably sell cheap just to see if I can't get some of my money back. That way I'm not too much into the hole with this mess.

DanHolohan

Fair enough. Feel free to post it in the Buy,Sell,Barter section of the Wall if you'd like.

Danscrew

Taco is a top shelf company I have had a few issues with pumps. And they have been on top of there game in Taking care of the customer. Not only replacing a defective product but with a updated model to insure I didnt have a recurring problem. Steve Thompson and his Team Doug And Rob are second to none.

Gordy

Im actually kind of wondering in this particular case of power surges/quality, and possibly system water quality. Seems odd two same pumps on same system. BB is not as robust in its circuitry.

Steve Thompson (Taco)

This is getting stranger by the minute. I sit in the same "quad" as Customer Services and 100% of the time they direct end users to the local rep - better local service that way. Technical Services might have made the comments on the Bee, but not Customer Service.

If we had massive failures on the Bee I can assure we would have pulled it (as would any manufacturer) - is it NOT a defective product (how quick the product is blamed - has not changed in my 40 years in the industry).

Jason, if there is any possibility of getting your failed Bee to me I will be more than happy to have our engineering department do a root cause analysis.

Please contact me @ stetho@taco-hvac.com or cel @ 401-441-2934. We will make this right if you give us a third chance...

And to Dan H and fellow Wallies, thank you for the support. Makes me proud to be part of this excellent industry. It's an honor to be at your service.

Yep, hug your kids...

Ironman

@Steve Thompson (Taco)

O.T. - Slightly

Steve,
I had a call I just got back from on a recent install. The carpenter decided to try and take the thermostat off the wall without turning the power off and fried the transformer in the SR503. My question is twofold: first, why didn't they fuse the low voltage transformer like it was in the old model? And, second, why is the Transformer pop riveted in from the back side of the panel? That makes it necessary to remove the entire panel from the wall to remove the old transformer. The old model had studs with nuts holding the transformer. Seems like a better method for a service man to work with.

On this one, I just unwired the burnt transformer an installed a remote mouted one which I fed the panel from. It would have been a lot easier if I could have just swapped the bad one out in the panel.

If you could pass this on to engineering, maybe they could make some changes to future production units.

I like most of the features on the newer model, but the tranny thing seem like a step backward especially considering they put plug connectors on it which would make change out much easier if the mounting was better. A simple fuse would have eliminated the failure altogether.

Not complaining, just suggesting a couple of improvements.

Thanks

JOSYS36

The circ has been mailed back to the supply house so that I will get my refund money. What they do with it from there is up to them. At this point my opinions stand and as far as I'm concerned this issue is closed.

JOSYS36

Steve, I would have gladly have mailed it too you but you didn't offer before I had to send it to the supply house. The supply company was not going to give me a refund difference if I didn't send it back. So, unless you were going to do the same I don't see how I could have sent it to you.

Plus, Last year when I called in to Taco in RI I asked for your customer service and I can still give you the name of who I spoke with. He was helpful and didn't try to refer me to "local" reps. I say local in quotes since the nearest local rep for me is like 3 hours away. He overnighted me a replacement HEC-2, and then I right away sent the failed one back in. He said they would let me know what failed and I never heard back. I even emailed in again with the incident number I was provided and still didn't receive a response.

This time I received what I stated above and then was told to just get in contact with who I purchased the circ from and deal with them. So, that is what I did. As of right now I'll get some money back from the failed circ since I asked them to replace it with a 0015, but I'll still have to try and sell the other HEC-2. I did post that in the other section of this board as Dan had suggested. That way I won't be too much underwater. At least now I can walk into my local hardware place and get a 0015 if I need one.

Tinman

A little late to the dance with this but I can't think of a hydronic manufacturer that offers contractors more without asking anything in return. Just about everything you need to completely design a proper hydronic system is offered on their website. FOR FREE!

I like doing the math but if I'm in doubt, I'll go there to verify my results.

Load calculations
Pump sizing
Buffer tank sizing
Expansion tank sizing
Drawing software
Air Separator sizing
And on and on ...

Thanks Taco!