Quality of the steam heat from the radiators ??

misterheat

I was recently in a house that had a much newer Steam one pipe system then mine (my boiler is new but my pipes and radiators are 87 years old ). The quality of the heat felt different then my house . My heat is so so dry . Are there variables that effect the outcome of the quality of the heat . Does it start with the steam being made at the boiler ? Does rust in the radiators effect the radiation quality ? Is there anyway to improve the dryness of my house? thanks

Abracadabra

misterheat said:

I was recently in a house that had a much newer Steam one pipe system then mine (my boiler is new but my pipes and radiators are 87 years old ). The quality of the heat felt different then my house . My heat is so so dry . Are there variables that effect the outcome of the quality of the heat . Does it start with the steam being made at the boiler ? Does rust in the radiators effect the radiation quality ? Is there anyway to improve the dryness of my house? thanks

What do you mean "my heat is so dry". That sounds like a humidification issue at your house, and could be due to air leakage, letting in cold dry air. The easy way to add humidification to a radiator is to throw a pan of water on top of it. Most radiator covers include a pan specifically for this reason.

vaporvac

Any chance they have a humidifier? If they have any vents on the first floor, they may have added one.

Jamie Hall

Chances are your problem is infiltration. Any time you take cold outside air and warm it up the humidity drops -- and if it's really cold out, it can drop a lot! So the two best ways to solve the problem are to add water -- the pans abracadabra mentions, for instance, or humidifiers -- or to reduce the infiltration, which will also reduce your heating costs -- but may be much easier said than done!

Fred

Probably near boiler piping and steam pressure are the biggest factor to dry steam. Making sure the risers out of the boiler are full size and if there are 2 boiler tappings, using both to help reduce steam velocity and consequently the amount of water carried up into the header and system with the steam, making sure the header is up as high as you can get it or better yet, using a drop header help keep the steam dry. The larger the header (within reason, 1 size larger than the risers) facilitates water dropping out of the steam and returning down the equalizer.
Keeping the boiler pressures down as low as possible so that steam can move quickly.
Dry steam is what you want, but that dry steam stays within the system. Humidity levels in the house is a different situation and may take a different solution.

misterheat

we use humidifers in all the Bedrooms. old style Hygrometer tells me air is very dry . Does steam add water to the air ?

Abracadabra

misterheat said:

we use humidifers in all the Bedrooms. old style Hygrometer tells me air is very dry . Does steam add water to the air ?

No (unless you have a significant steam leak at a valve). what's the reading on your hygrometer? I'd be surprised if you can get over 30% in the winter, and you are probably less with a leaky house.

Fred

misterheat said:

we use humidifers in all the Bedrooms. old style Hygrometer tells me air is very dry . Does steam add water to the air ?

Probably only minimally, when pushing air out of the rads before the steam shuts the vents down. I'm wondering if your friend has a small steam leak somewhere in his system??

Jamie Hall

Steam shouldn't add water to the air. If it does, you have a leaking vent! Not good!

For reference, the place I care for runs at about 35% RH in the winter, except very windy days. Best I can do, and there are room humidifiers in some of the rooms.

misterheat

I like the near boiler piping theory because my near boiler piping is wrong no drop header and with the IN 5 my non steam plumber only used 1 tapping . With that said i feel the problem got worse when my NS plumber stepped me up from IN4 to IN 5 and left the same old near piping ,all he added was krylon paint to make the old pipe look new . NOW would the problem have gotten worse if the boiler was stepped up to a bigger size ?

Fred

misterheat said:

I like the near boiler piping theory because my near boiler piping is wrong no drop header and with the IN 5 my non steam plumber only used 1 tapping . With that said i feel the problem got worse when my NS plumber stepped me up from IN4 to IN 5 and left the same old near piping ,all he added was krylon paint to make the old pipe look new . NOW would the problem have gotten worse if the boiler was stepped up to a bigger size ?

I doubt it. It may be worse as you raise the ambient temperature inside the house. What do you keep your thermostat set at and has that changed since the new boiler was installed?

misterheat

We have recently had a new edition to the family(had the new boiler put in 6 months prior to his arrival) so it has been set higher downstairs which leads to even hotter upstairs . we keep downstairs at 67 at night which leads to a temp of 73-74 ish upstairs maybe a deeper setback at night will help . We keep it at 69 during most of the day Maybe its time to try a thermostatic valves upstairs ?

Fred

Try the Thermostatic vent on 1 or two problem rooms. Don't overdo it with those though. The more of them you use, the more your boiler becomes over-sized as they shut the radiators down.
Also, try to keep your set-backs to no more than 2 to 4 degrees. Beyond that makes the boiler work for extended periods and that can cause some short cycling during recovery. It probably will short cycle even with a 2 to 4 degree set-back but a few short cycles won't hurt.

misterheat

Thanks right now i do 2 to 3 degree setbacks with no short cycling when it comes back up in the AM . I also have a main vent going in next week . Great point about the thermostatic vents i would not have thought about that . thanks

vaporvac

I can't remember all your posts, but have you looked into downfiring that boiler or using a two-stage gas valve. Those TRVs don't come cheap, so perhaps better to spend the $ on the firing rate. Good thing your getting a new main vent. It's amazing you're not seeing any short-cycle, so that's good.

misterheat

As well as adding a vent i am adding a rather large radiator which will put me right where i need to be pertaining to EDR and the furnace sq ft . I also did find a small valve leak which explains my water loss. We are getting there . This summer i plan on having a drop header put in with the second tapping put to use .

Fred

I'm glad you found that leak!