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wall hung boiler

Bob_115
Bob_115 Member Posts: 39
Can anyone recommend a gas fired wall hung boiler that is reliable and inexpensive. I need 45000 btus and it should provide domestic hot water.

Comments

  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 6,893
    There are several good ones. The fire tube models or the Dunkirk/Utica laser tube are excellent ones but they're not cheap. Quality and Cheap don't ride the same train together.

    Utica has a new modulating, non condensing boiler that's an 85% efficient wall hung. It's substatially less that a 95% mod/con and is a good match for high temp emitters such as baseboards.
    They also make it in a combi that will do domestic, but the firing rate on any combi is much higher than 45k btu's because of the instantaneous domestic load.

    If your wanting to stay near 50k in sizing and do domestic, then you'll also need and indirect. 50k btu's will barely heat 1 gpm domestic and a normal shower uses about 2gpm of hot water.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • We just installed a Rinnai e50c that would work for you.

    It heats a basement slab (500 []), upstairs UntraFin (1,000 []) and provides plenty of domestic hot water. I was impressed.

    It was the first time we've used this boiler; it's hard to find something this small as a combi unit.
    Often wrong, never in doubt.
  • Tom_133
    Tom_133 Member Posts: 824
    I agree with Alan, I have installed a couple of these units and so far so good. Any time in the past that I have contacted Rinnai the customer service has been excellent as well.
    Tom
    Montpelier Vt
  • kcopp
    kcopp Member Posts: 3,996
    edited February 2015
    I have a few Bosch Greenstar 100 boilers out there. Very reliable. I also have a few Triangle tube Challenger combi's. These are on homes w/ a single bathroom. As w/ any/ most combi's the hot water output is limited.
    I like the TT Challenger because there are fewer parts to go wrong down the road. No 3 way valves, the control is much simpler than the fw200, expansion tank is a std #30.
    I have used Utica CuB combi and where it was ok I was not overly impressed w/ the plastic parts inside.
    The other unit I have out there is a Cosmogas combi. Several mfg have rebadged it including Smith gb160, peerless 160 , slant fin vsr160 and Embassy Onex. The control is pretty straightforward and it has a small foot print. How water output is probably the best of any combi. It has a few quirks but for the most part it has been ok.
    One think to keep in mind is water quality. If it is hard or otherwise not up to par you will lose heat transfer fast. Thus poor hot water.
  • Heat_n_CT
    Heat_n_CT Member Posts: 64
    Of the six or seven quotes I received in Dec all but one was the Bosch Greenstar, all various sizes...mostly grossly oversized. I was interested in the Utica as well, but that contractor never showed up.
  • Jack
    Jack Member Posts: 1,046
    Just a point about the E50C. It will fire 13.5-50kbtu. 2.1 gpm at 75* rise. It is the only boiler they ship without the low loss header. If your system has in excess of 4.6' head you have to add the optional llh or pipe it primary/secondary.
  • jonny88
    jonny88 Member Posts: 1,139
    IBC have a great line out check out their website.I have installed quiet a few of their boilers and am very happy.But all the big companies are making quality products just make the person putting it in is familiar with product
    Xmytruck
  • Snowmelt
    Snowmelt Member Posts: 1,334
    Why not go with the navien that's on this website
  • dandutcher87
    dandutcher87 Member Posts: 3
    i would try to avoid a wall hung boiler unless you want chronic problems with your customers 5 years down the road
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,514

    i would try to avoid a wall hung boiler unless you want chronic problems with your customers 5 years down the road

    Having trouble relating to that umbrella statement.
    jonny88CanuckerRobG
  • jonny88
    jonny88 Member Posts: 1,139
    Gordy I agree with you.How can you(dandutcher87)make a statement like that.I know a guy who has Mod/Cons out there for the last 15 yrs.He services his products though.Maybe you have had a bad experience.What boiler do you like to use?
  • j a_2
    j a_2 Member Posts: 1,796

    We just installed a Rinnai e50c that would work for you.

    It heats a basement slab (500 []), upstairs UntraFin (1,000 []) and provides plenty of domestic hot water. I was impressed.

    It was the first time we've used this boiler; it's hard to find something this small as a combi unit.

    Alan that is a very nice install….good job...
  • Tom_133
    Tom_133 Member Posts: 824
    A question for Jack, on the E50C is there anyway to see the target temp I see supply and return but no way of seeing what it's targeting. Also, does the boiler always maintain a 20 degree delta and can I change it to a 10 degree delta? I just installed one that is feeding 3- 200' loops of radiant in slab I piped it direct because I am under the internal pumps 4.6 ft of head. So was hoping to get the control to allow a 10 degree delta but because of flow thru the HX probably will be limited to 20. Either way it is purring along as we hoped.
    Tom
    Montpelier Vt
  • psb75
    psb75 Member Posts: 571
    You have to know what curve the boiler is operating on while connected to the ODR sensor. If you haven't chosen one, the boiler is operating on the default or "factory setting", which is the highest curve. The target temp. of the boiler depends in any case on the outside temp. (if connected to ODR sensor).
  • Tom_133
    Tom_133 Member Posts: 824
    That doesn't help me find the target. I have programed it for setting 4 in the parameters, so it's highest water temp is 122 at anything under -4 degrees full under floor heat. I was curious if anywhere in the programing if it will display the target when I look. I understand if I open the manual and chart it I can see approximately what it wants I was just curious if it displays it like most boilers.
    Tom
    Montpelier Vt
  • Jack
    Jack Member Posts: 1,046
    Tom, you can adjust the K-factor to precisely match your design condition. That matches the ODR to your actual areas design temp. That would be Parameter 5. As that is a combi, it doesn't have the variable speed Grundfos that the heat only units have. It has the 3 sp Grundfos set on high to drive the DHW hx. I think you could look at Parameter 14. That is the gradient control. Default setting is for a 10*f/min rise. You can adjust that to from 0-28*/min. That should allow you to soften or increase your systems response. Your supply/return water temps can be viewed in Info Mode 1 & 4. Info is just that. No adjustments in that section. Check pg 51 in your manual for this info.

    You can pretty much make this thing sing any song you want it to if you spend the time with the boiler programming and system. Most go for the default settings, once you pick the ODR curve (parameter 2) and vent altitude compensation factor (Para 37). I have to say that I just don't have the hands-on that some of our resident wizards do. I can make adjustments, but if I get to far into it I meet myself coming around the corner;)
    Tom_133
  • Tom_133
    Tom_133 Member Posts: 824
    "If I get to far into it I meet myself coming around the corner" That quote will be on my tombstone!! Thanks Jack, I have done all of that and it's doing almost exactly what I need so I will leave well enough alone. Next time I won't cheap out, I will do the low loss header and put a viridian on the system side and get my delta of 10 degrees!!
    Tom
    Montpelier Vt
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 16,557
    Bob said:

    Can anyone recommend a gas fired wall hung boiler that is reliable and inexpensive. I need 45000 btus and it should provide domestic hot water.

    I've had a Laars Mascot in my in laws for 6 or so years, it has been great, with just a single user, 130k I believe

    Last year I installed a 120K Lochinvar Cadet in my home. It does struggle when Ellen fills the tub, especially if the solar pre-heat has gone cold. My experience is you need at least 130k to get decent performance with 55F incoming water temperature.

    It all depends on user expectations. If you size for the DHW, you may end up way oversized for the heating load, so good turndown, or a buffer for the heating side is important.

    In the end a tank style boiler with external plate for DHW works great. My shop gas a HTP Solar Phoenix 130K. With a 40 plate HX it supplies plenty of DHW, the 80 gallon tank is the radiant.

    Even with one zone a single panel rad, it runs nice long on/ off cycles.

    So you can start with a tank style, or possibly end up adding a buffer to a low mass boiler, depending on zoning, of course.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream