Utica UB90 - 150 Leaking...

john p_2

Have an 8 yr. old Utica UB 90 - 150 that has a 1"IPS plug in an unused port that is dripping. My question is being it is a steel plug inside cast aluminum should I try heating it up before removing as I would normally do if it was in cast iron?
Also, once I remove it and re-install it, should I use Expando so I never have another issue with it?

I am concerned as I live in NJ and there's no warm weather in sight, so I have to take it out, re-install and use the boiler pretty quick, as it makes my domestic hot water as well. I can maybe wait an hour or two so I'm concerned with what to use on the threads.

Empire_2

John there should be no problem backing out that plug from cast Aluminum HX. Just make sure gentle but steady power is applied to the pipe wrench or crescent wrench. If it were me, to re-install plug use Teflon, but do not over tighten as Teflon is also a lubricant and although it seems you can go a lot more turns, just snug it and maybe a half turn more. It's only 8 years old, but how much rust is on the plug itself? Use a little penetrating oil just to prime the threads.

Ley us know how it turns out.

Mike T.

Ironman

I've used an impact to remove them and hand tighten with a ratchet when putting it back. With Teflon as suggested.

icesailor

"Impact Wrenchs"

I personally would never use an impact wrench to remove a black plug in an aluminum block. Especially if it was leaking. The hard cast iron plug can easily gall the aluminum threads. Get the proper 4 or 8 point socket and a breaker bar and use that. You can "feel" your way through it.

The thing to remember about Teflon tape is that you can almost get it "finger tight" and it won't leak. You can tighten most anything up to 1" with a pair of water pump pliers and it won't leak. Most fittings dressed with Teflon tape and paste are grossly over tightened. To the point that cast iron fittings crack, and malleable fittings stretch and distort.

If you use an impact wrench, check to see if there is any aluminum oxide strips in the threads of the plug. If there are, the threads are wrecked. You'll be using Teflon Tape and RTV.

IME

Ironman

Ice,
It's a steel plug that takes a 1/2 square drive to remove it. In the ones that I've done, a breaker bar wouldn't loosen the plug so I used an electric impact with great care. That's what they're installed with at the factory. They used the wrong paste on them and that's why a lot of them leak.

And you're exactly right about the use of Teflon and RTV.

I've got a friend who is the service manager at a large pool company. He says all that they ever use on threads is silicone and they never have leaks.

TT gives a tube of what appears to be silicone paste ( someone correct me if I'm wrong) with every Smart Tank and requires that to be use with nothing else or there's no warranty.

Maybe our industry should look further at this?

icesailor

@ironman:

Years ago, HTP Super stor's had a big problem with with the connections into the HX coil. I never had one leak, but they must have had a barrow full of them. I was given a tech bulletin on how to install Super Stor's. It seemed that installers were using all kinds of pipe joint compound and then tightening up the adapters with what appeared to be 3' pipe wrenches. In other words, they were way over torqued. So, HTP came out with a different fitting, and instructions to use Teflon tape AND two specific kinds/brands of Teflon pipe paste. I don't remember which brands. I used Rectorseal 100 100% Virgin Pipe Dope and I think that was one of them. HTP said in the bulletin that you didn't absolutely have to use Teflon tape, but that you MUST use one of these two pastes with Teflon bits in it. They further stated that the system was so effective that you could tighten the fitting by hand, with no tool, and it was 99% positive to not leak, And when using a tool, to NOT OVERTIGHTEN THE ADAPTER. If you did, and the connection leaked, the warranty was void.

At the time, my primary paste was Meglok. Which is really good. I just found that the Rectorseal 100 was better Rectorseal has another, Tplus2 that is nice. There's something I found on water heater connections that was white with bits of Teflon in it. That was good. I was never able to find out what it was. I was limited as to what I could get. If my suppliers didn't carry it, I couldn't get it. And they didn't care. What they carried worked.

My biggest complaint with Meglok was that the oil separated and floated to the top. It was difficult to stir it up. It was worse than a jar of peanut butter. Once the can was down to below half full, you couldn't get the paste out on the brush, and you ended up throwing away the last 1/4 of the can. I wrote Meglock and asked them what kind of oil did they use in their Meglock so I could add oil. They never responded.

I figured that quality pipe paste is cheap at twice the price if I never have a leak. One leak will pay for a case of quality pipe paste.

And it sure comes apart easily. No smashed hands from slipping pipe wrenches.

I noticed that Steamhead uses it. At least he did on that nice steam job he posted. The White stuff. Wait until he gets ahold of some Blue Monster tape. That stuff is the best. And it comes in far bigger rolls. 1429" rolls. As opposed to the smaller rolls of 520". For some strange reason, although I always bought 520" rolls by the box, I seldom remember finishing a roll. It seemed that some gremlin stole my partial rolls. When I switched to the larger Blue Monster 1429" rolls, I never lost a roll, and I used up the whole roll. It was worth the slightly higher price. Better tape. And with paste, it is a thing of wonderous beauty.

IMO.

IMO.

Ironman

Ice,
I use the Blue Monster tape on everything but gas and usually use Blue monster Teflon paste. Never have leaks unless there's something wrong with the fitting. I also use the Rectoseal TPlus2 which is probably the best Teflon paste that I can find.

I'm sure that you remember even better than I do the days of just using a good paste and tightening it up good and we never had any leaks. Well, the advent of asian fittings changed all that for me. IDK about your area, but in mine it's almost impossible to get Amarican made fittings unless you special order them - except for ProPress fittings. So for me, it's tape + paste.

SWEI

Ironman said:

TT gives a tube of what appears to be silicone paste ( someone correct me if I'm wrong) with every Smart Tank and requires that to be use with nothing else or there's no warranty.

Maybe our industry should look further at this?

It's Loctite 567. Same thing as 565, but rated for 400°F instead of 300°F. Both work fantastically for tapered pipe threads, and give you several turns of workable makeup. Takes 24 hours to fully cure, but makes for much cleaner joints. To remove, just heat and unscrew.

john p_2

Thanks for all the comments. I plan to do the repair tomorrow using Teflon tape and Permabond pipe dope. I believe it is a 1" plug and I measured for the 4pt socket with calipers, it is 3/4" (square head). I plan to use a ratchet and possibly extend with a pipe if I need more leverage. Nervous about how much time I will need to allow to set up before being able to start heating the house again. Open to other pipe dope if it allows me to start up the system sooner.

icesailor

john p said:

Thanks for all the comments. I plan to do the repair tomorrow using Teflon tape and Permabond pipe dope. I believe it is a 1" plug and I measured for the 4pt socket with calipers, it is 3/4" (square head). I plan to use a ratchet and possibly extend with a pipe if I need more leverage. Nervous about how much time I will need to allow to set up before being able to start heating the house again. Open to other pipe dope if it allows me to start up the system sooner.

I don't know what Permabond is but it should have bits of Teflon in it.

If you get the Tplus2, slather some on the female part of the fitting, the aluminum part going in to the boiler. I've seen some pretty bogus PTFE and Teflon tape. Some seemed more like plastic tape than PTFE. I had some once that when you tried to rip it off the roll, it would almost cut through your finger joint before it broke. And it would unwind when you tightened. Good tape never does that. Good tape like Blue Monster.

Some people that don't use tape, paste both the male and female part of the joint. I do that on anything I thought critical and still used tape.

Tape & Paste rule. (or rock).

john p_2

New development...it wasn't just a plug that was leaking, also found a tiny pin hole in the cast aluminum block. I installed the boiler in 2005 not sure how easy ECR will be with the warranty process...will find out this morning.

icesailor

Well, if the "pin hole" is out in the clear, and there is no warranty left on the boiler, you might be able to drill a hole in the "Pin Hole" and tap it. Then, put a stainless steel or brass plug in it. If the inside of the hole is all oxide'ed and rotten, it might be proof that the aluminum termites were or are present.

You can treat for them, but its hard to restore their damage.

john p_2

Yeah, found out from my supply house that Utica will "honor" the warranty "IF" I pay $1209 plus the shipping to the supply house for the new cast aluminum block, have it installed - estimates ranging from $1400 - $2500, send Utica (ECR) the damaged one for their determination if it will in fact be covered under warranty. That's a hell of a warranty, there was no mention of this procedure even in small print anywhere on the website or literature when I bought the unit! You don't have to hit me over the head with a shovel to see the risk reward scenario in this situation doesn't make one bit of sense...
- In my honest opinion I don't care if I had lemonade circulating through my system, if I go through the process of removing the old block, paying someone to do it mind you, I'm supposed to lay $1200+ on the line to wait for someone to inspect my old block and "decide" whether or not I get refunded my cash or not! What recourse does someone have when they obviously will say " ah sorry, but it is our determination that is was your fault for the failure of the cast aluminum block - better odds in Atlantic City, no thanks!

Ironman

The current warranty forms state that the warranty for the HX is pro rated and that ECR will pay a decreasing percentage of the cost. I'm not sure if you're original warranty was setup that way. Can you find your original warranty certificate?

We're not supposed to discuss pricing here, but I could very easily replace that block in four hours or less. You might ask the contractor how many hours he's allowing in that estimate.

Also, in all fairness to ECR, it may be your water condition or another system issue that caused the failure. If that's the case, then how could it be their responsibility to cover the HX? There's two sides to every issue. And all manufacturers require certain water quality standards to be maintained for warranty coverage.

I also understand the position that you're in and it's not enviable to say the least. Where's your installing contractor? He should go to bat for you if the boiler was installed properly and the system maintained as required.

john p_2

Bob,
Sorry was frustrated and venting. I forgot about the pricing exclusion in discussions on this site, my error and apologies.

I was the installer (union pipefitter) and hired a contractor found on this site to check things and do the start up, combustion analysis, etc. I have my well water treated and tested but I am still not going to take that high dollar price gamble on this boiler, being almost 8 years old and the other issue I've had that ECR will not address.

As far as my warranty I do not have it in front of me but sure it is with the rest of my paperwork and will look at it but it is irrelevant at this point. I have pretty much made up my mind to go with something that has a SS exchanger- understood that they have their own issues with regard to water quality but I feel are quite a bit reduced in comparison to aluminum.

icesailor

john p said:

Bob,
Sorry was frustrated and venting. I forgot about the pricing exclusion in discussions on this site, my error and apologies.

I was the installer (union pipefitter) and hired a contractor found on this site to check things and do the start up, combustion analysis, etc. I have my well water treated and tested but I am still not going to take that high dollar price gamble on this boiler, being almost 8 years old and the other issue I've had that ECR will not address.

As far as my warranty I do not have it in front of me but sure it is with the rest of my paperwork and will look at it but it is irrelevant at this point. I have pretty much made up my mind to go with something that has a SS exchanger- understood that they have their own issues with regard to water quality but I feel are quite a bit reduced in comparison to aluminum.

Aluminum HX's like aluminum automobile engines, have a higher than average failure rate unless carefully monitored. What a manufacturer required for care 10 years ago is much more stringent today.

Gianonni Heat Exchangers have been around long enough to prove their reliability. Stainless Steel is a really odd alloy. But it seems to work.