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New Install - 10 Pounds in a 5 Pound Bag

Ironman
Ironman Member Posts: 7,548
in THE MAIN WALL
This is an install we're just finishing up at an 80 year old farm house with a new addition. The house had a 30 year old oil fired with nowhere near enough baseboard.

The old section got panel rads with TRVs. The new section got in slab radiant downstairs and in joist with dual track plates upstairs.

Everything, except the indirect and slab manifold had to go in this 3'x3' closet. The indirect is under the boiler "closet". The circ off of the indirect is for toe kick that created a micro zone.

Two Tekmar 356s are controlling the floors. The manifold on the left is for the 5 panel rads; the one on the right is for the in joist system.
Bob Boan
You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
SWEIbmwpowere36m3Gordy

Comments

  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 23,385
    Nice "shoehorn" job. Good use of a tight space.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,548
    Thanks, HR. It's actually a closet in a closet. But I'm not complaining. It was my idea as I didn't want to install the equipment in damp, cold 80 year old cellar with a dirt floor.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,858
    Nice job Bob.

    ME

    There was an error rendering this rich post.

  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,548
    Thanks, Mark. It's not quite as pretty as I would like, but functionally, it's working great. The owners were thrilled with how comfortably it heated the house during single digit weather last week.

    I'm really proud of my seventeen year old son, Jeremy, who did some of the piping and wired the controls. He also did most of the panel rads.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • Tinman
    Tinman Member Posts: 2,808
    Very nice, Bob. Has the investment of going to press fittings paid off? Something you can't imagine doing without?
    Steve Minnich
  • Robert O'Connor_12
    Robert O'Connor_12 Member Posts: 728
    nice
  • Harvey Ramer
    Harvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,261
    Good work Bob. Definitely a think before you crimp, so you can still get at it kind of job.
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,548
    Stephen Minnich said:

    Very nice, Bob. Has the investment of going to press fittings paid off? Something you can't imagine doing without?

    The fittings are significantly more expensive and once they're pressed, there's no second chance, but I'd rather taking a beating than give up my ProPress.

    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • Bob Bona_4
    Bob Bona_4 Member Posts: 2,083
    Well thought out job. It really shows. Nice!
  • Don_197
    Don_197 Member Posts: 184
    That is PURDY!!! I hope you entered it in Lochinvars installation contest......VERY NICE!!!
  • Tinman
    Tinman Member Posts: 2,808
    Good to see a young buck working in this fine trade. My son-in-law started working for me 3 months ago. Says he's learned more meaningful stuff than he did in 5 years of working in the corporate world.
    Steve Minnich
    Ironman
  • icesailor
    icesailor Member Posts: 7,265
    Really nice install.

    The only problem you will have with doing that is the next time, when someone has a smaller space they want you to shoehorn something in, they won't take no for an answer.

    We always put our own sticks to our own @$$'s.
    Ironman
  • R Mannino
    R Mannino Member Posts: 441
    Sweet! Paint on plywood doesn't really do anything anyway except look nice. What the Sailor said is correct: "Next time you'll get less space". But I bet it will look just as good!
  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
    Nice!

    I'm taking notes for a shoehorn job we're currently designing.
  • icesailor
    icesailor Member Posts: 7,265
    @Swei:

    Take all the notes you want. What you plan before hand, will NOT be how you end up doing it.

    First, mount the boiler. Like he did. So you has easy access to venting it. Those two nice side walls are really handy.

    #1 Rule in closet or tight space piping. Do NOT EVER let anyone else LOOK at those bare spaces until you have completed everything you need to do. Some other tradesperson will come along and want to use some of that space. Hang a panel in and on it. Tell him to go and find his own closet to work in.

    Years ago, in 1976, I was working for my old dead boss. He had this big house job. There was this good sized mechanical room and the architects had laid out what went in the room. They started adding things I was on my third water service move when the architect came by and asked me what I was doing. I told him I was moving the water service for the third time because someone added more equipment. He lost his mind. Something about coordination. So I suggested building a 6' 2X4 wall with plywood on each side. Then, you have an additional 12' of usable wall space for people that want wall space. In fact, make one over there too. Then, you'll have 24' of additional space. And I won't have to keep digging up and moving my water service. When the job was done, they had used all 24' of wall space. And I didn't have to move my water service.

    The only place in a new house that it is possible to get a 3" soil waste stack up to the second floor is where the electrician decides to put his panel. Then, tells you that he can't have pipes over or near his electrical panel. Its in the Code. "Well, unless YOU move your panel, they'll be using one of those portable blue or green houses in the yard and the Bouse House guy can come by once a week and pump it out. Why did you put your panel there when there was a 3" PVC 45 sticking through the floor with copper tube beside it"? It was three feet shorter for my wires.
  • bmwpowere36m3
    bmwpowere36m3 Member Posts: 512
    @Ironman‌

    Awesome job, definitely going to use those pics as inspiration. What kind of manifolds did you use?
  • Paul48
    Paul48 Member Posts: 4,469
    I've got a couple baseboards I need to replace, and have been pricing panel rads. I wouldn't want to guess how much that one cost. I'd bet that homeowner brings guests to look at that system, I know I would. With the care, and detail that went into that install, they had to know it would work flawlessly. Beautiful work! For an encore, could you write the Lord's Prayer on the head of a pin for me? :smile:
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,548
    bmwpowere36m3 said:

    @Ironman‌

    Awesome job, definitely going to use those pics as inspiration. What kind of manifolds did you use?

    Thanks.
    Those are Rehau manifolds.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,548
    Thanks for all the encouraging comments.

    Here's a couple or three more pics.

    The first one is looking up to the floor above where the plumber drilled right into the radiant tubing when installing the shower drain. Fortunately, there's no Sheetrock since this is over the stairs going to the cellar. He started with a 3/16" pilot bit and hit the tube dead center on the top.

    That's a Rehau EverLock coupling on the repair. The most reliable way I've ever seen to join expandable pex.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
    icesailor said:

    Take all the notes you want. What you plan before hand, will NOT be how you end up doing it.

    First, mount the boiler. Like he did. So you has easy access to venting it. Those two nice side walls are really handy.

    #1 Rule in closet or tight space piping. Do NOT EVER let anyone else LOOK at those bare spaces until you have completed everything you need to do. Some other tradesperson will come along and want to use some of that space.

    Already taken care of. Right hand portion of the closet gets shelving - AFTER the mechanicals are in.
    The only place in a new house that it is possible to get a 3" soil waste stack up to the second floor is where the electrician decides to put his panel. Then, tells you that he can't have pipes over or near his electrical panel. Its in the Code. "Well, unless YOU move your panel, they'll be using one of those portable blue or green houses in the yard and the Bouse House guy can come by once a week and pump it out. Why did you put your panel there when there was a 3" PVC 45 sticking through the floor with copper tube beside it"? It was three feet shorter for my wires.
    I started in construction doing low voltage work. The rule was always "plumbers first, electricians second, low voltage last." First dibs to the guys with the biggest drill bits and the hardest stuff to bend. So the waste piping before the supply piping, and the ceiling can lights before any other systems.
    RobG
  • nicholas bonham-carter
    nicholas bonham-carter Member Posts: 8,578
    Sizing a system with so many zones must be a challenge.
    If you had more room, maybe SWEI's asynchronous multi-boiler system would have been preferable.--NBC
  • icesailor
    icesailor Member Posts: 7,265
    @SWIE:

    "" I started in construction doing low voltage work. The rule was always "plumbers first, electricians second, low voltage last." First dibs to the guys with the biggest drill bits and the hardest stuff to bend. So the waste piping before the supply piping, and the ceiling can lights before any other systems""

    Its changed. Now the HVAC/Airheads are the chosen ones. They have the biggest "Pipes". There's only ONE place in the whole house that the designers left for you to run your waste to the second floor. When you arrive to start, that space is occupied with the return that the Scorcher put there to return the entire second floor of a 5,000 sq. ft. cottage. And THAT's the second floor.

    I forgot to mention, they already had their AC/Furnace installed under that spot with all the ducting run. Then, there's all those returns using the joist bay with sheet metal screwed to the bottom of joists for returns.

    Who needs that.

  • icesailor
    icesailor Member Posts: 7,265
    SWEI:

    Ever heard of "Reforming Pockets"?

    Its what you do on Horizontal drainage and you meet an obstruction like a big air duct of a fleet of pipes. You duck under the obstruction and jump back up.
  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
    icesailor said:

    Ever heard of "Reforming Pockets"?

    Its what you do on Horizontal drainage and you meet an obstruction like a big air duct of a fleet of pipes. You duck under the obstruction and jump back up.

    Isn't that a trap?
  • Paul48
    Paul48 Member Posts: 4,469
    Isn't that a running trap?
  • icesailor
    icesailor Member Posts: 7,265
    Its where you have a horizontal waste drain and there is an obstruction in the way (like a A/C duct) and you drop below the obstruction and back to the same plane. You need cleanouts above the drain above the drain.
  • bmwpowere36m3
    bmwpowere36m3 Member Posts: 512
    edited January 2015
    icesailor said:

    Its where you have a horizontal waste drain and there is an obstruction in the way (like a A/C duct) and you drop below the obstruction and back to the same plane. You need cleanouts above the drain above the drain.

    That would create a running trap… on a waste line I think that'd be bad if their were "solids" in the waste. Maybe okay if it's only liquids. Probably illegal, but what do I know ;)

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