Trying to resolve banging pipes

dkrz76

Hi Folks -

New to the forum. Nightmare situation. Purchased an old home (built in 1935) in 2012 with a single pipe steam heating system. Loud banging upon start-up, in particular a radiator in the bathroom (near the bedroom of course). Had a new gas steam boiler installed in Oct 2013 by an incompetent plumber. Pipes still banged and boiler itself banged from time to time.

Had a new plumber in a couple of weeks ago. He told us the boiler was installed incorrectly - copper piping and incorrect piping in general. The old plumber didn't even follow the instruction manual. So we had this taken care of this week, plumber even signed a guarantee that the banging would stop. Within a few hours the banging came back. Plumber said he needs to come back to skim the boiler, as the boiler was never skimmed upon installation. He said the water was filthy and that should take care of the problem.

Could this be a factor? This guy seems really well informed in terms of steam heat. He's read Dan's book and calls it his "bible". He's attending numerous classes on the subject as well. But we've had such bad luck and have spent a ton of money trying to get this fixed that I thought I would seek a second opinion. And I just think it's strange that's it's mainly one radiator that's the problem.

Thanks!

Dave

KC_Jones

The lack of skimming can definitely be a factor in banging pipes. That being said if it is indeed one radiator that is causing problems it wouldn't be a terrible idea to verify slope of the pipe with a level. Make sure the pipe is sloping towards the main and that the radiator is sloped to the inlet pipe. It's a fairly simple exercise. It this installer has Dan's book and refers to it as his bible that is a good thing. This person may even be on this site already if that is the case. If they are willing to continue coming back to resolve these issues they sound one of the "good ones". Be patient once it's all corrected you will be amazed at how well the system runs. Sometimes the systems get so messed up over the years there is no quick fix...it's a matter of tweaking to get it back in line. Good luck!

BobC

Whenever you do substantial work on a boiler or it's piping you introduce oils into the water, they come from the milling, cutting and treading that happens in this process.

The oil in the water cause a lot of problems and it has to be removed, this is done by skimming the boiler. When you skim you slowly float the oils off the surface of the boiler, did he install a skim port for you?

Look at the banging radiator and the piping that supply it and make sure everything is pitched so water can find it's way back to the boiler. Also make sure the radiator inlet valve is fully open.

After all the oils are out, that boiler will quiet right down if it was piped correctly. Post some pics of the boiler and the piping around it so we can see how he piped it.

Bob

KC_Jones

I'll second the pics if you want more opinions.

dkrz76

I appreciate the quick replies! Yes, he did install a skim port. I'll try to post pics tonight. The piping is totally different than how it was done before. We have already seen improvement as far as how fast the house heats, and the boiler itself is quieter. So I think we're on the right track. Testing our patience though.

BobC

Any steam pro is going to be busier than a one armed paper hanger at this time of year. He is waiting for all the oils to come down to the boiler so it can be skimmed, try to be there when he skims so you can learn how it's done because it often has to be done several times to get rid of all the oil.

Bob.

JStar

I like that guy's attitude!

You should ask him if it's okay to post his name and some of the piping pictures on this thread. We can always use more steam enthusiasts around here. Unless he's in NJ, then STAY AWAY! {/end sarcasm}

dkrz76

dkrz76

Fred

Looks like a nice install! Check tht radiator and it's supply piping for pitch as has been suggested and have the boiler skimmed (it may take 2 or 3 skims) and you should be good to go!

JStar

My only complaint is that both supply risers from the boiler need to be used. There is no way to eliminate one side without causing problems. The manual should state that rather clearly.

KC_Jones

Not sure if this is that big of a deal, but it's not the "norm". The return pipes look like they are tied together above the water line which I thought wasn't supposed to be done?! Other than that it looks a whole lot better than most of what we see on here.

dkrz76

Thanks for the responses. I'm relieved it appears to be a good install, but I will mention the minor (hopefully) issues that were brought up.

Dave0176

Could be wrong, but that boiler looks like a Dunkirk model, but branded different. If it is I know Dunkirk wants 2-1/2" risers out of the boiler, one or two, two being much better, into a minimum 2-1/2' header, and they specifically state [do not bush down the riser size]. I remember Steamhead saying these boilers are very sensitive to improper piping.

Fred

Dave0176 said:

Could be wrong, but that boiler looks like a Dunkirk model, but branded different. If it is I know Dunkirk wants 2-1/2" risers out of the boiler, one or two, two being much better, into a minimum 2-1/2' header, and they specifically state [do not bush down the riser size]. I remember Steamhead saying these boilers are very sensitive to improper piping.

It looks to me like a 2-1/2' riser with maybe even a 3' header. of course my eyes aren't what they use to be??

Dave0176

Fred said:

Dave0176 said:

Could be wrong, but that boiler looks like a Dunkirk model, but branded different. If it is I know Dunkirk wants 2-1/2" risers out of the boiler, one or two, two being much better, into a minimum 2-1/2' header, and they specifically state [do not bush down the riser size]. I remember Steamhead saying these boilers are very sensitive to improper piping.

It looks to me like a 2-1/2' riser with maybe even a 3' header. of course my eyes aren't what they use to be??

Yeah pics are deceiving sometimes. Lol I do see all the bushings now. I know, it's the malleable fittings that are throwing me off!!!

Gordo

It looks to me like that installer is one of the good ones.
Please have him come here and introduce himself!
I bid him welcome.

dkrz76

An update. The plumber came back and skimmed the boiler. He also removed blocks that had been under the troublesome radiator in the bathroom. In addition, he insulated the pipe that leads up to the bathroom. It's only been a couple of hours but no banging! This guy really knows what he's doing. I never thought I would be able to find someone that could solve this problem!