boiler install feedback request

markhpc

Hey guys,

About halfway through having a new boiler and indirect DHW installed in my house. Due to an unforeseen circumstance the company installing the boiler may need to have someone other than the original installer finish the work. I was hoping folks might be able to help me determine if there's anything I need to watch out for or ask them to check on before signing off on the work. I'm a little nervous that with 2 different people doing the install, something might get screwed up.

original boiler:


new partially installed boiler:


other view:


Thanks!

j a_2

I know its still work in progress….The workmanship, looks a little suspicious…Keep posting some pics…Hold that last payment until you do….Also request an inspection

Paul48

It appears to be pumping at the expansion tank. So much gets lost in shadows, it's difficult to tell. Light up the area and take some more photos. Please.

Zman

It is a shame that the installer did not take the opportunity to improve on the original installation. Instead you have,from a workmanship point of view, a sloppy mess.
The location of the heating (black) circulator is incorrect. Right now it is pumping into the expansion tank. It is important that it pumps away from the tank.
You are right to be especially critical. Generally installers that don't care if the pipes are straight and properly secured make other errors as well.
Carl

markhpc

Thanks guys, I really appreciate it!

We actually bought the house recently and aren't living there yet so I'll have to try to get over to take more pics. For now, I increased the exposure on the originals to make them brighter and added a 3rd from another angle.

Anything specifically I should focus on for new shots?

icesailor

One of the biggest disappointments in my life was that I could never learn to use Air hangers. No matter how hard I tried, nothing lined up in 360 degrees. Or plumb and parallel. I used a lot of Van Hangers.

markhpc

Thanks for all the feedback guys. I talked to my father-in-law who used to do commercial HVAC about the circulator pump location. He went and found the io manual here:

esc io manual

He said that based on the diagram on page 55, he thought the pump location was probably ok. He did agree with the comments here regarding the workmanship. I did notice that it looks like a number of the solder joints were overfed. In some cases solder ran down the pipe and beaded up on the bottom. It definitely looks rough in places, but I don't know enough about plumbing to know if it just looks bad or if it means the joints could fail prematurely. Here's one example:



In any event, I guess the bigger question is still whether or not I should be concerned that a new guy might be taking over halfway through? Is this straightforward enough that a new guy could jump in and finish it competently? I'm starting to get pretty nervous here given how this has gone so far.

Snowmelt

W e gave you advise saying pump is on wrong side of expansion tank.
Also I like to see a taco zone board relay in there for the zones.

markhpc

Snowmelt:

Yes, and I really appreciate it. I actually showed the comments here and the pictures to my father-in-law and he said the same thing about the pump being on the wrong side at first, but after reviewing the ESC IO manual ended up thinking it would be ok in the end. I confess I'm no expert here, I'm just relaying along what folks are telling me.

I actually did ask about a taco zone board during the install and the installer said the ESC handles all of the zone control itself. Are there advantages or disadvantages either way?

Tinman

A Plumbing We Will Go? You may be better off with the new installer? I love hardware, love using it even more. Strut, strut cush clamps, threaded rod, clevis hangers, Sioux Chief straps, rod clamps, and the like. The use of a few of these things and a level would have made a world of difference.

Tinman

I replaced my first boiler in 1982. I had 2 months experience and was making $5/hour. My helper had 1 month experience. I had no business being a lead guy on a pump replacement, let alone a boiler replacement.
It was January in Chicago and we were removing a steel Triad boiler and installing a smaller profile cast iron boiler. I had NO IDEA what I was doing. I'm sure the "after" pictures looked as bad as anyone has ever seen. It was a horrible day and we didn't finish until 9pm. I felt terrible for the customer. Somehow, the thing worked when we were finished. I really don't know how or why it worked.
Everyone has to start somewhere but hopefully they'll be guided and taught by someone who cares about getting it right the first time. Whenever I think about throwing a guy into something that's way over his head, I first have to remember what it was like for me and that customer a long time ago.
Training, training, and more training is the answer. My new apprentice Tim, will replace his first and second boiler when I feel he is ready and I'll be on the job for both.

clammy

Get a pro to re pipe your boiler some one who is familiar with hydronic heating .This would entail installing your system pump on the supply and feeding that indirect with it s own pump with chk valve on the pump supply and the return off the indirect to prevent thermal migration to the boiler and short cycling due to the migration .(been there seen it ) A real pro would properly hang and support your piping and also install isolation valves on all serviceable parts so your system will not have to be drained and re purge if water side service is required .Its a hard time as usually to find some one to properly install anything these days a lot of fly bys and helpers doing mech work blindly .Peace and good luck find a pro clammy

Paul48

mark......Look at that manual yourself. Do you see any of the recommended piping arrangements that show the circ pumping at the expansion tank? Take a look at what you've got there.....and you're concerned another installer might be worse? It's not possible. It's time to stop them in their tracks. Get the owner of the company involved. You're not paying to have work done, that could be done by an 8th grade shop class student.

unclejohn

Gentleman please, as SM said above his first boiler worked, as will this one. Yes the pump should be on the supply, will it work where it is, yes it will. Are the solder joints a bit messy, yes, will they leak because they look messy, not necessarily. Would a zone control make the job look better and clean up the rats nest wiring, most likely, will it work better with the zone control, not really. Will the second guy be any better then the first, who knows. Did I set the record for commas in a post, maybe!

Snowmelt

Nice post S.M. & uncle John.

icesailor

You can be the best installer in the world.

Coming in after a Hackaroo and trying to resolve a mess are very difficult things to do. Boiler replacements are difficult to do. Most want some tight price to do the work. Replacements aren't conducive to being nice looking unless you can get the money to spend the time. Most people want and expect the cheap car with all the extras. They just don't want to pay for the extras.

It takes time(money) to pipe back to a wall/stationary surface and pipe back to the new boiler. It's hard to pipe things plumb and in whine with all the other pipes when everything is hanging out freely. The installer did the best he could to the best of his ability. Would all of us here done it so it looked like that? Probably not.
Some of us know that it is a difficult practice to pipe from nowhere, to somewhere. Its easier to pipe from somewhere to somewhere. No matter how hard you try, to pipe to a moving target like a unsecured and swinging pipe, it will look like something that the hacksters did. But you gave a price. If there isn't enough there to buy gas for the truck, you should have let someone else be the low bid.

Its always nice to go back somewhere 10 years later and wonder who did that nice neat job. Then, remember that it was yourself.

Its called "Pride In Your Work".

Mark Eatherton

What Clammy said.

Hydronics is very forgiving. You can have a whole lot of things in the wrong places, and it still puts out heat. Heat is but one component of comfort, and efficiency.

It pains me to see this much poor quality work going on out there. The folks here at the wall obviously take a lot of pride in their workmanship, but they are a minority. Most jobs look like this one.

It might work as installed, but you will be having to call for service for air removal almost every year. You can do it right, or again, and again and again.

Tell them to follow the manufacturers exact recommendations, and install it straight.

ME