boiler running, no heat.

MikeinNEPA

So to start we're talking about a residential single pipe system, I'm not at the property as I rent it, and won't be able to get there to another 2 hours. I'm just looking for some thoughts to help me pack tools for when I head over.

As of this morning everything was fine. Tenants came home to a cold house. They said all radiators are cold except one which is "kinda warm". The one they said is kinda warm is the first off the main.

My first thought is the main vent, it was replaced about 5 years ago but I don't recall with what, May have been a home cheapo.

Thanks in advance.

Fred

If the boiler hasn't shut down on low water, it is quite possible the pressuretrol has failed or the pigtail that the Pressuretrol is mounted to is plugged with gunk, not letting the pressure to drop to Cut-in on the Pressuretrol switch. I'd check the Pigtail.
Edit: I seriously doubt the boiler is running!

MikeinNEPA

By the pigtails do you mean the electrical wiring? Also what can I do about it tonight? At least to get it running till I can get to the plumbing store in the morning.

Fred

MikeinNEPA said:

By the pigtails do you mean the electrical wiring? Also what can I do about it tonight? At least to get it running till I can get to the plumbing store in the morning.

No, the looped metal pipe that the Pressuretrol is mounted to. EDIT: Take the Presssuretrol off and take that pipe off and clean it outAlso, if this boiler has a standing pilot, check to see if that is lit. If not, the thermocoupler/Thermopile may need to be replaced.
If an electronic pilot, it is possible the ignitor has failed. If thermocoupler, most harware stores carry universal ones.

MikeinNEPA

It's a standing poorly but the thermocouple and gas valve we're replaced at the beginning of the season.

Can I take off the pressuretrol pigtails clean it out if it's clogged? With a wire or something of the sort, just to get it running till I can get the partsbtomorrow? The pressure from is the last piece of the system I haven't dealt with yet

STEAM DOCTOR

Clock the meter. There may be a fire but might be to small to produce steam. If underfired, the typical culprit is the gas control

Fred

MikeinNEPA said:

It's a standing poorly but the thermocouple and gas valve we're replaced at the beginning of the season.

Can I take off the pressuretrol pigtails clean it out if it's clogged? With a wire or something of the sort, just to get it running till I can get the partsbtomorrow? The pressure from is the last piece of the system I haven't dealt with yet

Yes, the fix is to take the Pressuretrol off, take the pigtail off and use a wire or just hold it under a faucet to clean it out. If you can't get the pigtail off, try blowing into it. if it's not too clogged, you may be able to blow it open.

MikeinNEPA

Steam doctor, is that likely with a new gas valve that's been working for season thus far?

BobC

Clocking the meter is to be sure the boiler is using the correct amount of gas. If there is a pressure problem on the street the boiler may be firing but not enough to make steam.

http://www.aprsupply.com/support/technical-support/checking-firing-rate-(clocking-meter)

Bob

JUGHNE

Is the boiler really hot??!! Don't add water to it!!....if you passed that test/point then perhaps then is there a LWCO problem, some have manual reset, but only if you correct the problem, Is the pilot light on. then look at the pressure gauge...Nothing yes...then a professional bump to the pressuretrol with rubber handle of screwdriver...if it lights off then plugged pressuretrol might be the problem. I would make sure it will fire and then shut down and clean pressuretrol.

STEAM DOCTOR

Clock meter with just boiler running. If underfired, then clock meter with just water heater running. Could be gas valve or low pressure from street (ask neighbors if they are having problems) or problem with meter etc.

nicholas bonham-carter

take some jumper wires, with alligator clips, so you can simulate a call for heat, and jump out the safeties, one at a time as well as fresh batteries for the thermostat.
if the boiler is old enough, it may have a baso switch, which has a stuck button. the thermocouple, may not be in the pilot flame properly.
why were the gas valve and thermocouple changed?
if the boiler has been overfilled, the pressuretrol may sense enough pressure to interrupt the circuit.--NBC

MikeinNEPA

Alright guys thanks for the help, I'm going over there in an hour to see what I can do. At least now I'm armed with some ideas as to what could be the problem.

mjp82

So I took the pressuretrol off, the pig tail is fixed to the other end if boiler ( threated on the pressuretrol side.) I tried to shove some wire through it to clean it out but couldn't get it all the way though the curl, though it just seems to be the shape not a clog.

Now however I can't get the pilot to stay lit, wires are all hooked up the same. Its a millivolt Robert Shaw 700 gas valve, brand new as of October. New thermo couple as of October as well. Pressurtrol is a Honeywell no real markings on it. Looks like its quite old. Any thoughts?

mjp82

Image of boiler

mjp82

Image 2

mjp82

I'm MikeinNEPA sorry for the confusion

JUGHNE

The pilot has to be on first, try to relight if not replace thermocouple. Is this a power pile system or is there 24 volts to the valve?

BobC

If you can blow through that pigtail (in place) you can verify it is clear. Maybe cleaning the thermocouple would help, make sure it's in the pilot flame.

Bob

Captain Who

I'm confused. Are you the original poster but with a different username?

That pressuretrol really is so old, it is nothing like what I've ever seen. I don't see the differential wheel inside. If it is that old there should be a mercury switch but I don't see one.

Are you following the directions to light the pilot exactly?

I'm not familiar with that gas valve but I found this from Dec 1995:

http://www.robertshawtstats.com/spaw2/SiteContent/Files/FAQ/ControlTips-MillivoltSystems.pdf

Read Millivolt System Checks 6) and D)

mjp82

Its a millinvolt system l, nit external power besides the tstat wire.

Pilot wont light, flame is on the thermocouple. Now it was lit untill I turned it off to disconnect the pressurtrol.

No way to blow air through it with out taking that cast iron part off

JUGHNE

was the pilot burning when you arrived? You can't blow with your mouth thru the pigtail? A long Nylon/plastic cable tie might go thru the pigtail.

Fred

When you say the pilot won't light, do you mean it lights when you hold a match up to it but it wont stay lit after you release the pilot button on the gas valve? If that's the case, the thermocoupler needs to be replaced (even though it is relatively new, they ccan burn out fairly quickly if the tip gets too red hot). If it won't light when you hold a match to it, is the gas valve button turned to "Pilot" and are you holding down on that gas valve button while you light it? Hold it down for about 30 seconds then turn it to "ON"

MikeinNEPA

I'll try the cable tie in the morning, I wish I could remove it but it seems like it's fixed in that cast iron part.

The pilot was lit when I got there tenets said "boiler was running" but radiators not getting hot. So the first-time I did was turn the pilot off so I could remove the pressuretrol and try to feed a wire through the pigtails

The wire got to the apex of the loop but wouldn't go any further, no gunk on the end of the wire when I pulled it out. Felt more like it was just binding due to the shape of the pigtails. A nylon zip tie sounds like it will work better. But that still leaves me without the pilot.

MikeinNEPA

Exactly as you said Fred, lights but goes off as soon as I released the knob. I read about testing the thermocouple with a volt meter and a lighter would that be worth trying first before replacing it? My natural cheapness kills me to throw parts at a problem, if there is a way to test it.

Fred

I am sure it is the Thermocoupler. They are just a few dollars and that will fix your probm for sure. Also, blow through that pigtail. If you can blow through it, it is open. If you can't it's plugged and needs to be opened. If you put it back together now, the boiler will start up since you released the pressure in the tube but it won't fire more than a very few times after that as a result of built up pressure again

MikeinNEPA

To open it just clear it with it with a zip tie or wire? Or is it something that can be replaced? I can't see how to remove the pig tail from the cast iron part (it was covered with great white but It seems to be attached from the inside)

Also just incase that is not the issue what would the symptoms of a bad pressuretrol be?

Fred

That Pigtail just screws into (and out of) the Low Water cut-off. My only concern is that it may have leaked and hence all the putty.
The symptoms of a bad pressuretrol usually is it will let the pressure build up well past its setting but if the contacts are burned, it is also possible that the switch won't make contact to cut-in either. If you can get the new thermocoupler on and get the pilot on, you can try the pressuretrol and see if the boiler fires. If it won't, simply hold the two wires from the pressuretrol together and if the boiler fires, the Pressurerol id bad. Do not leave those two wires tied together though. That Pressuretrol is an important safety control.

JUGHNE

If you have a true power pile gas valve there would be no power needed to the boiler; the "power pile" (thermocouple on steroids) produces all the power required to open the valve. But because you are dealing with a relatively weak energy source versus 24 Volts, all wiring connections must be made absolutely solid. This includes all switches involved....T-stat---LWCO---presuretrol. As mentioned in the download above mercury switches may not cut the mustard, you need a good solid clicker switch. Just exercising the mentioned switches may clean their contacts. We assume you have water showing in the sight glass?

Need pictures of things tomorrow, it is jammie time now.

MikeinNEPA

Sight valve looks good even drained and refilled just for good measure. Tomorrow I'm going to get the thermocouple swapped and clean out the pig tail. The wiring is pretty old I'm guessing it too should be replaced. Does it matter what I use or would basic 16 gauge solid strand be fine?

Fred

MikeinNEPA said:

Sight valve looks good even drained and refilled just for good measure. Tomorrow I'm going to get the thermocouple swapped and clean out the pig tail. The wiring is pretty old I'm guessing it too should be replaced. Does it matter what I use or would basic 16 gauge solid strand be fine?

16 gauge, solid is fine. Give us an update tomorrow.

MikeinNEPA

Will do thanks guys, night

mjp82

So thermocouple is good, I put a new one on and tested it for a reading, but pilot still won't stay on

JUGHNE

How about pictures of gas valve/burner up close and entire boiler from across the room?

mjp82

Here you go

JUGHNE

You could try this: remove the t-stat wire from the valve leaving only the red & white well connected to gas valve, see if pilot stays on then.

mjp82

T stat wires removed only the thermocouple connected, pilot still does not stay lit

mjp82

Also pigtail is clear no blockage, I got all but an inch ofba 14" zip tie freely through it.

JUGHNE

There might be the instructions for your valve & t-pile on site as you said it was new in Oct. Check connections per that sheet. The download fm above does not match exactly what you have.
You did put the wires back where they were? The instruction sheet should give you the millivolt system checkout.

Captain Who

Who did the install? Do they warranty their work? The gas valve may still be under warranty also. If they didn't leave the instruction sheet they did you wrong.

MikeinNEPA

I have the instructions, in wine call the guy who did it he left me high and dry with something else. It's a Robert Shaw 700, I had to take. Break to pick up my little guy hut I,m heading back now.

Could it be a bad gas valve?