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Union in gas feed?

rtv
rtv Member Posts: 73
edited December 2014 in Strictly Steam
On my boiler (W-M EG40) the gas pipe comes in the side with a long nipple before the right angle bend down to the gas control. Is there any reason they didn't (and i shouldn't) put a union inside before the right angle? it would make it infinitely easier to remove the burner tray for cleaning/repair..instead of disassembling all the pipe back to the previous outside union!

Comments

  • RobG
    RobG Member Posts: 1,850
    Can you post a picture? There should be a union at the appliance.
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,254
    When you say outside union....that is outside the boiler cabinet, not outside the house? If out side the cabinet then perhaps sometimes getting wrenches to work on a union near a gas valve inside a furnace/boiler is tough. But the less than 8 American bucks saved (or 4 china dollars) is never thought of again by the pipefitter unless he is the one who has to remove the burner. If you know you will have to visit this again, then a second union will be in your own best interest. I assume there is a gas stop before the union.
  • rick in Alaska
    rick in Alaska Member Posts: 1,462
    According to our code here, you can not have a union inside an appliance. Has to be on the outside. Check with your local code people first before you try it.
    Rick
    kcopp
  • rtv
    rtv Member Posts: 73
    Yes, there is a union outside the cabinet...just thought it would be quick and easy if there was one just before the gas control.
    just unscrew the union and pull out the burner! instead of taking the whole lead in pipes and drip stub apart. Like Rick said maybe its a code thing?
  • rtv
    rtv Member Posts: 73
    after reading some more it appears that the codes mentioned
    were about unions that are concealed or inaccessible..i suppose the front of the boiler is about as obvious and accessible as you can get...i'm still investigating
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,254
    My comment may have seemed way outside the realms of possibilities, but I have seen things piped starting from the gas valve out to just about anywhere. And many times you have to shut down the NG at the meter just to change a gas valve or the appliance; the original gas company (1960-1970's) considered the gas valve itself as the appliance supply stop. These issues are corrected as need be. (will I do anyway) :)
  • rtv
    rtv Member Posts: 73
    Jughne,
    you are SO correct! you never know what you will find with old houses. in this one i found BARE wires running through the joists in the ceilings held apart by chunks of truck tires as insulators/standoffs! :)
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,254
    The truck tires were probably old enough to not have steel belts...so what's the problem?? Some LPG installs would make anyone back off. I have seen 4 unvented water heaters; 3 directly into the basement & 1 thru a ceiling into an attic that was not vented well at all. For all of these I was there for something else and would casually comment about it and the reply would always be "it works...been that way 25..40...years".
    As far as interpreting concealed & inaccessible it seems that inside the boiler/furnace cabinet there are already potential leak points, (if that is the logic). I've heard this before and would like to know the reasoning behind.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 16,231
    edited December 2014
    When I installed my EG-45 I made the same mistake and put the union way out just under my valve.

    My gas valve failed and this time I added a union right next to it inside the boiler vestibule.

    I'm a homeowner not a pro but as far as I know this does not violate any codes in my area. Either way, in order to pull the burner tray out on an EG series to clean anything you need a union close by.




    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • rtv
    rtv Member Posts: 73
    edited December 2014
    chris,
    you have the union just where i want to put one on mine.
    it seems to make sense.
  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 5,238
    rtv said:

    chris,
    you have the union just where i want to put one on mine.
    it seems to make sense.

    It may make sense to you but it is against code.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 16,231
    edited December 2014
    pecmsg said:

    rtv said:

    chris,
    you have the union just where i want to put one on mine.
    it seems to make sense.

    It may make sense to you but it is against code.
    Where is it against code? If it's against code in NYC but fine where he lives I don't see a problem?

    IMO the only way to know for sure is to call your local plumbing inspector and ask. I don't know if all are as helpful but mine was willing to answer any questions I had.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • rtv
    rtv Member Posts: 73
    just went through the Uniform Plumbing Code...it made two applicable references. one: requiring a union after a shutoff to allow easy disconnection of controls. second: unions are not to be used in inaccessible or concealed locations (walls floors etc.)

    Im sure there are other codes and stuff...im still lookin' !
  • icesailor
    icesailor Member Posts: 7,265
    Sounds like one of those "I don't like to see a Union inside a burner cabinet. I like them outside where there's more room." kind of thingy by some AHJ inspectors.

    Whatever makes them happy and produces a signature.

    I'd put one inside AND outside. If the cost of the extra union means that you will go into foreclosure, you weren't making any money. How much does a 1/2" or 3/4" Black Union cost?
    Hatterasguy
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 16,231
    rtv said:

    just went through the Uniform Plumbing Code...it made two applicable references. one: requiring a union after a shutoff to allow easy disconnection of controls. second: unions are not to be used in inaccessible or concealed locations (walls floors etc.)

    Im sure there are other codes and stuff...im still lookin' !


    Interesting,
    However, this is accessible by lifting a door off?

    Can you have a union inside a wall if you put an access panel in instead of covering it?
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
    ChrisJ said:

    Can you have a union inside a wall if you put an access panel in instead of covering it?

    Around here they don't allow unions above lay-in ceilings. Other valves, J-boxes, etc. are OK, but for some reason no gas unions.
  • Abracadabra
    Abracadabra Member Posts: 1,948
    pecmsg said:

    rtv said:

    chris,
    you have the union just where i want to put one on mine.
    it seems to make sense.

    It may make sense to you but it is against code.
    Uhm.. then every LGB weil mclain makes which is supplied with 2 unions on each gas train (one at the manifold after the 2nd gas valve and one just after the shutoff and before the first gas valve) inside the cabinet I guess is illegal?


  • icesailor
    icesailor Member Posts: 7,265
    Abracadabra said:

    pecmsg said:

    rtv said:

    chris,
    you have the union just where i want to put one on mine.
    it seems to make sense.

    It may make sense to you but it is against code.
    Uhm.. then every LGB weil mclain makes which is supplied with 2 unions on each gas train (one at the manifold after the 2nd gas valve and one just after the shutoff and before the first gas valve) inside the cabinet I guess is illegal?


    Usually, the appliance gets a listing approval. If the gas train is inside a cabinet, and came from the factory like that, all installed, it is supposed to be OK.

    Its when they come in pieces and you have to put the pieces and you don't read instructions about where it has to go.

    Sometimes, some consider that a violation of the listing so it is an illegal install.

  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 16,231
    edited December 2014
    Guess I'm lucky then because our inspector, who is an NJ state inspector because our town is small, doesn't care.

    In fact, when I did all of the gas piping some had told me never to use plugs, only a nipple and a cap because the inspector would fail a plug. He didn't care either way.

    Now because of what I consider a mistake, I do have two unions on my boiler, one below the valve and one at the gas valve inside the vestibule. So I guess it passes icesailor's approval too. :)
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • rtv
    rtv Member Posts: 73
    Well is seems that it may be code..or not.. I guess it really doesn't matter much in my case. The only things that matter are
    safety and performance. Since no one has mentioned anything
    detrimental in either of these categories....anyone?

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