Click here to Find a Contractor in your area.
Welcome! Here are the website rules, as well as some tips for using this forum.

If you've found help here, check back in to let us know how everything worked out.
It's a great way to thank those who helped you.
Need to contact us? Visit https://heatinghelp.com/contact-us/.

Which brand should I go with for gas steam boiler

jerryjjjjerryjjj Posts: 18Member
I am a new homeowner and I need to replace the existing old Weil McLain boiler since it has cabonized probably due to leakage in sections. Called three plumbers and all of said that this is not fixable.

Now I have narrowed down to two models based on the quotes, Weil McLain EG-45 and Peerless 63/64 series. I am located in Bayside, NY. Does any one has one of these models installed? I would like to hear your feedback. Any advice or experience is greatly appreciated!

I think the main difference is that Peerless has steel push nipple and Weil has rubber ones. I do not know which brand will be more trouble free for the natural gas steam system.

Thanks!

Comments

  • KC_JonesKC_Jones Posts: 4,182Member
    First question are you sure those are the correct size boilers? Was the EDR of your radiators measured and sized accordingly or did they just look at your old boiler and size by that? They should be able to provide EDR calculations. As far as brands it's more a matter of the installer. You need a good "steam man" to do your install and in reality that is more important than which brand you go with. You need an installer that understands steam and will give you a good install, understands proper maintenance and is even willing to educate you on your system. I have a Weil Mclain that replaced another Weil that lasted 32 years.
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
    https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10202744301871904.1073741828.1330391881&type=1&l=c34ad6ee78
  • jerryjjjjerryjjj Posts: 18Member
    Thank you, KC_Jones. Yes, the plumber helped us to size the boiler. It will be around 150000 BTU. The contractor we like prefers Peerless but I heard Peerless is better in Oil boilers.
  • KC_JonesKC_Jones Posts: 4,182Member
    Just to confirm he measured every radiator in the house? And sized as close to that as possible? Most on this site will agree it's more about the installer than the boiler itself. Plenty of people on here install peerless and plenty install Weil. It's a matter of preference, but more times than not it about availability of product and support. Make sure everything is specified in your contract. Steam boilers have very specific install instructions that are a MINIMUM, but if you have a good "steam man" they will want to exceed those minimums. Your pocket book and your senses will appreciate a better install.
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
    https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10202744301871904.1073741828.1330391881&type=1&l=c34ad6ee78
  • jerryjjjjerryjjj Posts: 18Member
    I really appreciate your input, KC_Jones! You sound very experienced. Yes, the plumber came to measure each radiator. May I ask your preference of gas steam boiler of these two models? Do you work in this area? If you are a professional located in NY, I would like to talk to you. Thanks!!!

  • KC_JonesKC_Jones Posts: 4,182Member
    Not a pro by any means. There is a mixture of pros and homeowners that have been living with these systems for a number of years....we have learned a thing or 2 through some experience and a ton from this site. Passing on knowledge is my way of trying to "pay back" what the site has given me. Like I said installers have their preference. If you found a good contractor you like and they really know what they are doing then go with their recommendation, especially if they will be doing all the service on your system. It's more about the installer than the brand. You did hit the nail on the head with the push nipple versus gasket. Some don't like the gaskets some don't have a problem with them. If you believe the installer is good go with them. Just make sure everything is spelled out in the contract. Proper piping, proper materials, proper start up of new boiler...including skimming (unless you plan on doing that yourself?). It is critical to be specific in the contract to protect yourself from getting an incorrect install. Steam systems are touchy and need to be tuned just right. Question for you, how is your current system running? Is it nice and quiet? Does it heat well? Are all the rooms keeping a consistent temperature? Did the contractor you like ask you any of these questions?
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
    https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10202744301871904.1073741828.1330391881&type=1&l=c34ad6ee78
  • jerryjjjjerryjjj Posts: 18Member
    Thank you both. I bought the house recently and this is the first season I used the old Weil McLain boiler. It generates enough heat but I always smell gas in the basement. I had no experience until the CO alarm went off last weekend. Con Ed came over and said the boiler is carbonized. All plumbers said it is non fixable and it had leakage sign from what they saw from rusted tubes. Now all the tubes are black and I remember seeing the flame to be yellowish in the past month, which was abnormal but we did not know.

    When we got the house inspection, the inspector found the leakage problem and the previous owner promised to fix it. They gave us a service receipt at the closing saying that everything has been fixed. We had no experience so we trusted whatever the agent told us.

    We called the plumber last weekend on the receipt we got at the closing and he said he did not see a sign of leakage in summer so how could he repair. But all of us including the agent heard the water dripping on the tubes. The agent and the previous owner will not care us because the house is closed. So as a first time home buyer, we are paying for the tuition now. We were too naive to trust them.
  • AbracadabraAbracadabra Posts: 1,948Member
    Uhm.. there's a lot of info in your last post...

    1 - CO alarm went off. Is the boiler getting enough fresh air for combustion? Is the chimney clear? I assume the boiler is atmospheric since you mentioned "tubes" which I take to mean "burner tubes"? Did anyone check/clean the section flueways? Something like this:

    2 - Leakage? as in "water leakage". I can't see how water leakage would cause poor combustion leading to high CO. The leakage is separate from the high CO.
  • If you're cost conscience, I'd go with Thermoflo.
    It's a Weil-McLain that's $XXX less.
    Same exact boiler.
  • kcoppkcopp Posts: 3,355Member
    I would go w/ a oil fired Peerless WBV Steam boiler w/ a Carlin gas conversion burner.
  • jerryjjjjerryjjj Posts: 18Member
    This is the tube I am referring to.
  • KC_JonesKC_Jones Posts: 4,182Member
    That is leaking and judging by that amount of rust it has been leaking for a while. Mine (almost the exact on you have) leaked for one complete heating season and didn't have anything close to that amount of rust or corrosion on it. In fact my old burners have been outside for months in the weather and still don't look that bad. The previous owner in my opinion pulled a fast one on you. Any plumber should have seen that and known it was leaking they don't need to see the leak that amount of rust means a leak. My guess is the "insulation" you are seeing isn't insulation, but flakes of corrosion from the rotted boiler. I am just a homeowner and that is just my opinion.
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
    https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10202744301871904.1073741828.1330391881&type=1&l=c34ad6ee78
  • STEAM DOCTORSTEAM DOCTOR Posts: 924Member
    As stated above, the brand of boiler is of secondary concern. The quality of the boilers are more or less the same.Not to say that there aren't differances between the boilers. However thouse differances are secondary. The quality of installers is vastly different. Ask the prospective installer why you should hire him. If he tells you ( and guarantees) that he will properly size, pipe and skim then you know that you might have your man. If he tells you that he's been instaling boilers for the last ten or twenty or fifty years, then you would be advised to look for someone else
  • jerryjjjjerryjjj Posts: 18Member
    Thank you!
  • jerryjjjjerryjjj Posts: 18Member
    edited December 2014
    This is what one licensed plumber sent me. Please comment.
  • KC_JonesKC_Jones Posts: 4,182Member
    That's a hot water system not a steam system.
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
    https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10202744301871904.1073741828.1330391881&type=1&l=c34ad6ee78
  • STEAM DOCTORSTEAM DOCTOR Posts: 924Member
    That's a hot water boiler, not steam
  • KC_JonesKC_Jones Posts: 4,182Member
    echo echo echo
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
    https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10202744301871904.1073741828.1330391881&type=1&l=c34ad6ee78
  • jerryjjjjerryjjj Posts: 18Member
    Okay, I will ask for a new one. Usually are oil fired system always steam? The other contractor is specialized in oil to gas conversion. I do not think I can post the company's name here though. They insists that push nipples will work better than O-ring. They are the only company who came to every room to size the radiator.
  • vaporvacvaporvac Posts: 1,516Member
    If they're the ONLY ones who measured all the rads, they're the only ones you should be considering. There's no good way to guess that number. The consensus among the pros is in favor of push-nipples for various reasons.
    Two-pipe Trane vaporvacuum system; 1466 edr
    Twinned, staged Slantfin TR50s piped into 4" header with Riello G400 burners; 240K lead, 200K lag Btus. Controlled by Taco Relay and Honeywell RTH6580WF
  • jerryjjjjerryjjj Posts: 18Member
    edited December 2014
    Now I got the pictures from the other contractor, the only one who measured all the rads. Please take a look, every one. I appreciate your help!
  • STEAM DOCTORSTEAM DOCTOR Posts: 924Member
    Nice
  • KC_JonesKC_Jones Posts: 4,182Member
    If they do all their installs like that they are good!
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
    https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10202744301871904.1073741828.1330391881&type=1&l=c34ad6ee78
  • jerryjjjjerryjjj Posts: 18Member
    Thank you! Then I should go with this company. They prefer Peerless. I just checked online. Peerless has standing pilot or optional spark ignition. What does that mean? I know WM has electrical ignition. Will standing pilot ignition be safe? I think there will always be a pilot there.
  • STEAM DOCTORSTEAM DOCTOR Posts: 924Member
    Dont think you can get standing pilot anymore (big shame). Make sure everything is detailed and detailed (repetition is not a typo) and guaranteed in writing. Sizing, piping, skimming etc.
  • jerryjjjjerryjjj Posts: 18Member

    Dont think you can get standing pilot anymore (big shame). Make sure everything is detailed and detailed (repetition is not a typo) and guaranteed in writing. Sizing, piping, skimming etc.

    Please see the link below.
    http://www.peerlessboilers.com/Products/ResidentialBoilers/Series63/tabid/114/Default.aspx
    It says standing pilot.

  • Captain WhoCaptain Who Posts: 452Member
    It looks real good except the Hartford Loop "may" be a bit high. It needs to be 2 to 4 in. below the NWL. I have a standing pilot Peerless 63-04-L where the installer put the hartford loop at about the same level as the NWL so I have to over fill the boiler. I guess I'm sensitive to that issue now lol.
  • AbracadabraAbracadabra Posts: 1,948Member
    jerryjjj said:

    Dont think you can get standing pilot anymore (big shame). Make sure everything is detailed and detailed (repetition is not a typo) and guaranteed in writing. Sizing, piping, skimming etc.

    Please see the link below.
    http://www.peerlessboilers.com/Products/ResidentialBoilers/Series63/tabid/114/Default.aspx
    It says standing pilot.

    They haven't updated their website.
  • jerryjjjjerryjjj Posts: 18Member
    Thank you, all! I will come back with the piping pictures at my own house.
  • Tim McElwainTim McElwain Posts: 4,281Member
    The requirement to eliminate standing pilots took place September 1, 2012 for heating equipment only.

    Those kind of rule changes mean no equipment developed after that date can have a standing pilot (there will still be intermittent spark ignited pilots).

    It does not however stop manufacturers or distributors from depleting their existing stock of standing pilot equipment. That probably means there is still some equipment around.

    I would go with the standing pilot system unless you are concerned about the pilot being lit 24/7. Thermocouple operated systems are much less complicated and less problems in the long run.
  • jerryjjjjerryjjj Posts: 18Member
    Thank you, Tim. The contractor told me that it will be electrical ignition because that is required by NYC code.
  • SWEISWEI Posts: 7,356Member
    jerryjjj said:

    Now I got the pictures from the other contractor, the only one who measured all the rads. Please take a look, every one. I appreciate your help!

    No photos there, and it appears that the photos of the hot water boiler from the other day are also gone?
  • jerryjjjjerryjjj Posts: 18Member
    Yes, I deleted the pictures because the company's name is on it. Not sure if I can post pictures like that.
Sign In or Register to comment.

Welcome

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!