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Broken main steam vent

Spunky424
Spunky424 Member Posts: 82
in Strictly Steam
https://us.v-cdn.net/5021738/uploads/editor/tq/dijba3fergox.jpg

So I have a one pipe steam system in my house and I've changed all the rad vents with gorton vents. I've been searching for my main vent to swap out and finally found it but to my surprise it's broken. The top portion is hanging on by a thread. Is it safe to still run my boiler or should I wait to replace it? Also can I replace it with a gortons #1 vent? Thanks in advance
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Comments

  • nicholas bonham-carter
    nicholas bonham-carter Member Posts: 8,578
    use at least one if not several gorton #2's. each 20 feet of 2 inch pipe needs I gorton 2.
    use slowest radiator vents to start with, and if any rads are slow, then increase the size of that vent.--NBC
  • BobC
    BobC Member Posts: 5,502
    As long as steam is not spewing fromthat vent the system can be run.

    How long is your steam main and what size pipe? You may need a larger capacity vent but something like a Gorton #1 would work. It would be best to get the vent up on a nipple, the higher the better.

    Bob
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
  • Spunky424
    Spunky424 Member Posts: 82
    I believe the pipe size is 2-1/2" and the main is roughly 22ft from the boiler to the end of the steam main. Mom going to be replacing just the one since there's just one port for a vent. Should I go one gorton #1 or a #2 main vent?
  • BobC
    BobC Member Posts: 5,502
    edited November 2014
    The gorton #2 has 3X the capacity of a #1. On a pipe with that volume of air you might need two of them but try one and see how it works out, you can always add a second if you have to. You can build an antler to hold two of them.

    The Gorton #2 has a 1/2" male thread so you may need an adapter if that is not a 1/2" fitting.

    Bob
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
  • Abracadabra
    Abracadabra Member Posts: 1,948
    Careful with the insulation. It's asbestos.
    ChrisJ
  • Spunky424
    Spunky424 Member Posts: 82
    https://us.v-cdn.net/5021738/uploads/editor/ik/e1464tn2yjpm.jpg
    https://us.v-cdn.net/5021738/uploads/editor/0s/kau40omeh1xw.jpg

    Thanks yea i paid extra attention not to touch any of it.

    So I removed the vent and here are some pictures. Can anyone help me identify what size the threads are so that I can get the correct vent size?
  • Abracadabra
    Abracadabra Member Posts: 1,948
    I'm guessing 1/2".. should be able to head to a hardware store and try spinning a fitting on there.
  • Spunky424
    Spunky424 Member Posts: 82
    Thanks its definitely 1/2". i just ordered two gorton no. 2 vents. hoping to get them in an antler setup. is there anything specific i need to know about setting up the antler?
  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 5,840
    Make sure it has some amount of slope back towards the main so the condensate can get out. Doesn't need much just some amount of slope.
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
  • Spunky424
    Spunky424 Member Posts: 82
    so i received my gorton no. 2 main vent. for the mean time since its going to snow in NY tomorrow i unfortunately dont have time to setup an antler setup. would it be okay to just place one gorton no.2 vent where the existing one use to be? also should i have an extension pipe maybe 3-6" vertical before the vent? thanks for the help.
  • Fred
    Fred Member Posts: 8,542
    Yes, put it on. It only takes a few minutes to build an antler but for now it is OK to put one on. A verticle nipple would be helpful.
  • Spunky424
    Spunky424 Member Posts: 82
    just outta curiosity are all these parts readily available at home depot? or do i have to go to a plumbing supply?
  • Spunky424
    Spunky424 Member Posts: 82
    also is it recommended to use teflon tape on the vent threads prior to installation?
  • BobC
    BobC Member Posts: 5,502
    Home depot may have everything you need if they pay attention to their stock. The teflon tape will seal the threads and make it easy to take things apart if you ever want to.

    Bob
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
  • Spunky424
    Spunky424 Member Posts: 82
    Wow I totally underestimated the size of this vent. It's huge compared to the original one that was on there. I don't think I'll have enough head room for an antler setup.
  • Fred
    Fred Member Posts: 8,542
    Yea, they are about 7 to 7- 1/2 inches tall and about 4" in diameter. It looks like you may be able to fanegle it in though.
  • Spunky424
    Spunky424 Member Posts: 82
    Just attempted to place the vent on and it's hitting the pipe behind it. Definitely a no go. I'll have to create an antler or pipe it away from the existing fitting and pipe. Are black iron fittings okay to use?
  • BobC
    BobC Member Posts: 5,502
    Make sure any horizontal nipple has just a bit of slope so any water can find it's way back to the main.

    Bob
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 5,840
    Spunky424 said:

    Are black iron fittings okay to use?

    That is the only thing you should use.
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
  • Fred
    Fred Member Posts: 8,542
    Yes, Black iron is what you want to use.
  • Spunky424
    Spunky424 Member Posts: 82
    Looking at my fitting choices. Would it be okay to come off the existing t with a 90 degree elbow to go far left? It won't be pitched any like ppl recommend
  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 5,840
    A 90 is generally fine. I can't see much in your picture, but the main you are attaching to should have pitch to it. So if you make it so the 90 is NOT perpendicular to the main then you should be able to get some pitch on it somehow. The pitch only needs to be slight just not level or pitched towards the vent. Any amount of pitch will do. Hard to explain, but basically try and use the pitch of the main to help you pitch your vent antler.
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
  • Fred
    Fred Member Posts: 8,542
    You can also use two 45's and turn them to get any pitch you desire.
  • Spunky424
    Spunky424 Member Posts: 82
    So I think I got this all sorted out. Waiting for my little one to go to bed so I can install this thing. I hope it has the right pitch.
  • Spunky424
    Spunky424 Member Posts: 82
    So after installed it was pretty back pitched. I propped it up and gave it proper pitch with the help from some wood blocks. Hopefully it'll hold. What do u guys think?
  • Spunky424
    Spunky424 Member Posts: 82
    Also forgot to mention that there is some insulation that is sitting right on top of the vent. The vent is actually pushing it up a little. Do you guys think that'll be ok?
  • Spunky424
    Spunky424 Member Posts: 82
    Hmmm so started the boiler up and now experiencing a lot of boiler short cycling due to the pressuretrol. I have it cutin at 0.5 with a diff of 1.5. Looking at the gauge around 2psi the boiler cuts off and then will start back up again after a few minutes. This has been going on at least 5 times now in the past 20 minutes. Is this normal?
  • Spunky424
    Spunky424 Member Posts: 82
    Here is what I know of my boiler system.
    1) I replaced all vents on all radiators with a mixture of gortons vents and a few danfoss trvs to help overheating some rooms
    2) replaced main vent with the two gortons no. 2. Which u guys know
    3) boiler was initially set to 5 psi cut in with a 2 diff. I set these values to recommended values via forums and the book we got steam.
    4) old cast iron boiler has been replaced 3 years with a wm boiler. ( attached photo of name plate)
    5) I believe my father removed two rads on the first floor and capped them.
    6) all rads heat up evenly now including the second floor rads.

    So the short cycling was definitely due to the pressurtrol cutting in and out.
  • Spunky424
    Spunky424 Member Posts: 82
    Here is the radiator information:

    Radiator EDR

    Living room #1
    Columns - 5
    Sections - 16
    Dimensions - 23"H x 24"W x 6"D

    Living room #2
    Columns - 5
    Sections - 14
    Dimensions - 23"H x 20"W x 6"D

    Kitchen
    Columns - 5
    Sections - 16
    Dimensions - 23"H x 24"W x 6"

    John's room
    Columns - 5
    Sections - 16
    Dimensions - 23"H x 24"W x 6"D

    Moms room
    Columns - 5
    Sections - 20
    Dimensions - 23"H x 30"W x 6"D

    2nd floor master
    Columns - 4
    Sections - 12
    Dimensions - 22"H x 22"W x 5"D

    2nd floor bedroom
    Columns - 4
    Sections - 12
    Dimensions - 22"H x 22"W x 5"D

    And attached some photos also
  • Spunky424
    Spunky424 Member Posts: 82
    I've calculated a total EDR of 306. I guess the boiler is 144 EDR oversized.

    How would I go about sizing a nozzle to support the radiator EDR. Also the master br on the second floor definitely does not have enough heat supplied to it since the radiator is one of the smaller ones in the house. I'd eventually like to get a bigger radiator so that the room does heat evenly with the rest of the house.
  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
    Spunky424 said:

    How would I go about sizing a nozzle to support the radiator EDR.

    You find a top notch oil burner tech and you tell him, "I want to downfire this thing as much as is practical but it must run cleanly and safely."
    KC_Jones
  • Abracadabra
    Abracadabra Member Posts: 1,948
    Spunky424 said:

    Also forgot to mention that there is some insulation that is sitting right on top of the vent. The vent is actually pushing it up a little. Do you guys think that'll be ok?

    Just make sure the insulation isn't blocking the hole on the vent.

  • BobC
    BobC Member Posts: 5,502
    I don't think you can reduce the firing rate that much on an oil fired steam system, you can go 10-15% less but that is about it.

    For 16 years i ran a v75 (596 sq ft) on a system that only had 200 sq ft of EDR. It short cycled but heated quietly and was pretty economical to beat.


    Try to slide something between the vent and the insulation so the insulation doesn't get soggy, maybe a piece of milk jug would work.

    Bob
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
  • Spunky424
    Spunky424 Member Posts: 82
    Hatterasguy said:

    Spunky424 said:

    I've calculated a total EDR of 306. I guess the boiler is 144 EDR oversized.



    How would I go about sizing a nozzle to support the radiator EDR. Also the master br on the second floor definitely does not have enough heat supplied to it since the radiator is one of the smaller ones in the house. I'd eventually like to get a bigger radiator so that the room does heat evenly with the rest of the house.

    Good job. You have found your problem. Boiler too large for the task given to it.

    Take the advice of SWEI regarding downfiring it. You want a very qualified burner technician who can hopefully reduce the nozzle from 1.20 down to about .85. The technician will tell you that you will never heat your house, but just explain that the boiler is way oversized and to see if he can get it to run cleanly with the smaller nozzle.

    Also, reconnecting the two radiators will definitely help with the issue.

    Finally, the master BR radiator doesn't have enough heat. The question is whether it is heated all the way across and won't heat the room or whether it just doesn't appear to get enough steam to heat it fully? If it is the latter, we can fix that with ease by simply changing to a larger vent.
    In regards to the bedroom. the radiator gets real hot and gets hot fully across all sections. The bedroom was renovated a few years back which added a ton of volume to the room (11-12' ceiling heights) and the heating still stayed the same. will upgrading to a larger radiator help?
  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 5,840
    Be careful how much you increase there are limitations due to the size of the pipe running to that room. I don't have it in front of me, but Dan addresses this in his book. Each pipe size has an EDR rating. You should check the pipe size and verify against the EDR rating for that pipe.
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
  • Spunky424
    Spunky424 Member Posts: 82
    BobC said:

    I don't think you can reduce the firing rate that much on an oil fired steam system, you can go 10-15% less but that is about it.

    For 16 years i ran a v75 (596 sq ft) on a system that only had 200 sq ft of EDR. It short cycled but heated quietly and was pretty economical to beat.


    Try to slide something between the vent and the insulation so the insulation doesn't get soggy, maybe a piece of milk jug would work.

    Bob

    I just reached out to weil-mclain and technical support recommended only going a max derating of 10%. I reached out to a couple of recommended boiler contractors from his site but was told that they do not do that kind of work and i need to contact a boiler fuel oil technician. should i just contact my boiler service (slomins)?



  • Spunky424
    Spunky424 Member Posts: 82
    Any idea of who else I can reach out to? I'm located in Long Island NY.
  • Fred
    Fred Member Posts: 8,542
    edited November 2014
    Try one other thing. Open all the radiators and turn the TRV's so they are wide open. If they are almost always closed, it's about like not have the radiator on the system, exacerbating the oversized boiler issue. Open everything up and see how much less the boiler short cycles. If that is the culpret, you may need to decide if you want to continue to use them or if slower vents might be a better option.
  • Spunky424
    Spunky424 Member Posts: 82
    So I opened up the trvs all the way and still short cycling. Also starting to notice that some of the rad vents are whistling/venting before the gorton no. 2 main vents are. Is this normal? I thought I read somewhere that we should vent the mains fast and the rads slow? Correct? If so which size vents should we have on our rads?
  • Spunky424
    Spunky424 Member Posts: 82
    Think I might have just found my problem. I'm using straight vents on the radiator sides instead of the angled ones. Is this going to be an issue?

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