Navien is this the start?

jonny88

Hi,So I installed a Navien CH240 18 months ago after sandy hit.Customer was an elderly lady and her neighbour wanted to do a nice thing for her and bought the unit.They asked me to install the unit.I must admit I am not very confident in the unit but under the circumstances it went in.Last week get the call the unit is leaking.It was the air vent on pump inside unit.I drive to the house one hour away to see what problem.Navien were good enough to send part to my house but due to the fact they only warranty labor for one year I am supposed to bill the elderly lady.I have a conscience and did not charge her for the repair.I do feel bad for the homeowner who doesnt know better and is being sold on this unit.I know a few plumbers who are making a nice living going around repairing these units as there is so many out there.Now the unit is changed to the NCB what are your thoughts on this unit.We all know Navien is a inferior product to some of the other manufacturers out there but in fairness to them they will stand by the unit and warranty,it is you the homeowner who will pay in the long run.I am not trying to start a Navien backlash here but am a little annoyed that after a year and a half I am put in a situation where I am supposed to charge a customer for this boiler on the wall.I know anything can go wrong with any boiler but how do you guys handle the billing part without feeling bad.

Docfletcher

Been there done that. Not with Navien or any plumbing/heating stuff of course. However I was in field service and I can tell I did allot at no charge for elderly and otherwise compromised folks. Mostly I gave my time without putting the time spent in to the company. I was paid back though as the oil company that serviced my Moms aging New Yorker did allot for her for either no charge or reduced rates. So what goes around comes around.
Always do what you know to be the right thing.

Bob Bona_4

I would charge for both the part plus profit and your time and do not spend a second re guilt. The system could have kicked up some garbage and made the vent weep. Not Naviens problem or yours. Assuming you made nothing on the boiler, you must charge for your time then at install and forevermore. I have put in a few NCBs..no problems so far. I would not consider it an inferior product.

Gordy

I'm with Bob. The lady did not have to pay for the boiler, or installation costs I assume by your story. Why should you feel guilty? That is a part that is prone to fouling. Probably won't be the last one.

I'm a softy, but when will it end if there are on going problems.

Docfletcher

Glad I'm not in business... Sounds like I'd lose my shirt.

Gordy

the problem with products of all facets is the older generation expects more dependability, and longevity. The young generation is throw away, and get another. I tend to agree with the older generation, but where would the economy be if everything lasted 50 years.. Hell I still got a crane faucet in my shower from 1952.

One other thing sometimes the elderly can be offended by good deeds ran into that a time or two. It's a fine line of independence, I don't need your help, and okay I know I need the help, but to proud to take it.

j a_2

When you install a boiler for someone,its up to you to explain the warranty…There are few ,if any boilers, that have been without issues…I don’t think its fair, to pick on one manufacture…If you did something, out of the good of your heart, thats great…Navien as well as others advertise here...

Docfletcher

I understand that you can't give away the store. I'm sure all you fellows give due consideration to any mitigating circumstances.

Today I took a Everbuilt pool cover pump back to home depot. It was 4 months old and the impeller broke. On the box the it read 2 year warranty. Upon reading the the details of the warranty (which I should have read as soon as I got it home) I was angry. It said in part customer must pay for all shipping and all labor to repair or exchange the pump. The associates didn't want to anything about exchanging the pump as store policy is 90 days. So I spoke with a manger and she OK'd an exchange right away.She then when on to say I don't know why they had to call me up here they (the associates) should of handled it. So i left happy, but not happy that the pump broke in 4 months.

jonny88

ja i agree with you,I tried not to do the usual bash on Navien whether they advertise here or not is of no relevance to me.All boilers have their failures some more than others,but unfortunatly the real reliable ones are are stretch for the average income household.I was also posting a ? on the NCB as I actually have to put one in this week(again not my choice) but I will do a better job explaining warranty issues.Why did they stop making the CH model anyway?

HDE_2

Two issues I see there, after reviewing installation diagram and general instructions.
One, you left the vent open that should have been closed after initial install and purging.
Two, the vent was left open and venting air which means the primary system vent is non-existent, improper or not functioning.

Sorry, I don't see this as a Navien product but an installer oversight. Lets not be too quick to blame manufactures, there's a lot to learn on different products and if your not familiar there is bound to be mistakes made.

When oversights and mistakes are made its best to admit, fix and move on in my opinion.

Ironman

HDE,
I see nothing in Jonny's post that indicates the valve was left open. I've had that valve leak on a brand new unit as soon as I filled it.
Unless he admits to having left it open, I think you owe him an apology.
It appears that in you zeal to defend Navien, you're quick to make accusations that may not be true or be substantiated by any facts.

Steamhead

HDE, do you work for Navien or one of their reps?

jonny88

HDE ,After every mod/con install I have someone who has been working on mod/cons for a lot of years do a combustion test etc and check all piping etc.He usually designs systems for me on large jobs and he consults for a lot of companies in NYC.Believe me that plastic little quality made air valve was not left open.The leak showed up 16 months later.I replaced the plastic air valve assembly with a new plastic air vent assembly which Navien was so gracious to provide me.When I make mistakes I have no problem admitting to it and like anyone in the field mistakes can be made.This was not an install error,just a shoutout to homeowners to expect repair calls on their unit and to be at the mercy of plumbers who have gone to Navien training get listed and do quite well repairing this unit.As i said I have an NCB to put in this week and will explain to customer exactly what JA stated above.Dont be to quick to jump the gun HDE.

HDE_2

Steamhead said:

HDE, do you work for Navien or one of their reps?

Very familiar with their product because of multi-family projects

HDE_2

jonny88 said:

HDE ,After every mod/con install I have someone who has been working on mod/cons for a lot of years do a combustion test etc and check all piping etc.He usually designs systems for me on large jobs and he consults for a lot of companies in NYC.Believe me that plastic little quality made air valve was not left open.The leak showed up 16 months later.I replaced the plastic air valve assembly with a new plastic air vent assembly which Navien was so gracious to provide me.When I make mistakes I have no problem admitting to it and like anyone in the field mistakes can be made.This was not an install error,just a shoutout to homeowners to expect repair calls on their unit and to be at the mercy of plumbers who have gone to Navien training get listed and do quite well repairing this unit.As i said I have an NCB to put in this week and will explain to customer exactly what JA stated above.Dont be to quick to jump the gun HDE.

Sorry, when I hear air vent leaking it's usually the vent. Where else would it leak?
Our project managers in the field have reported the vent leaking at the vent outlet, which makes sense as the circulator starts and stops sucking on the float. Just like we would see in any hydronic system with poorly placed air vents.