Want opinions on modifying pipe

ChrisJ

I just want to get some opinions on taking this pipe apart as I'm sure guys that do this all the time would have a better idea of how to attack it.

I need to remove the pipe running up to the radiator as it's now a good 1/2" too short due to installing a new floor. Because the runout is so short I have no flex at all and it's moving the entire main when I pull up and doing so will likely cause issues with another radiator. Part of this is due to the new floor, another part is the fact the radiator was sunk into the old floor and yet another part are the pads I have on the radiator legs.

If you were me, would you try to get just the vertical pipe out or skip that step and go for the joint at the 45? Originally I was going to go just for the pipe I need to extend but looking at it that seems like it's going to be a nitemare to get up in there. I'm thinking even if I can manage to fold the pipe out of the fitting I'll still need to clean the threads up and that seems near impossible.

The joists in the picture are 2x8".

Bob Bona_4

I would try to change the vertical first, then workmy way back if that fails. I can see busting the 45 if it's old cast and starting anew from there to the rad.

icesailor

From the standpoint of a wet guy, it's almost a no brainer.

It might be a two man job if you can get a 2' wrench around the shoulder of the 1 1/2" ell below the floor. Between the fitting and the sill. To "back up" the torque/twist. Move the radiator out of the way (A hand truck and a properly sized piece of plywood to set the radiator on. To save that nice antique floor.

Put a 2' pipe wrench in the riser pipe and kick it with your hoof while someone backs it up from below. Take the brass valve off and get a longer nipple and reconnect it.

You can cut the pipe off below the floor and use other strategies, but its better than that being on the second floor. If you put some care and thought into it, you shouldn't have to "collapse" the pipe.

I always worked alone. I had this argumentative imaginary helper who was always telling me I couldn't do something without his help. So I figured out a way to do it without him. Then told him to fluck off. You can back that pipe up under the floor with creativity.

When I was EBO, I had a real helper who had a way with twisting sayings. One was "Where there's a way, there's a will". There's always a way to do it, if you have the will to figure it out and do it.

gerry gill

I would bust the 45 and replace all the way up from there.

Zman

Is there any chance you could oval out the hole a little and use what you have? From the picture it sure looks like you need to come up a good 1 1/2" to get to the correct pitch.
Otherwise busting the 45 is looking pretty good.

ChrisJ

Zman said:

Is there any chance you could oval out the hole a little and use what you have? From the picture it sure looks like you need to come up a good 1 1/2" to get to the correct pitch.
Otherwise busting the 45 is looking pretty good.

The pitch is actually good. After taking this picture I went down and put a level on the pipe because I thought it looked way off to me as well. I guess it's the angle I took the picture at because it looks different in person. The pipe is going towards the joist and away from the camera so I think that's what makes it look odd.

ChrisJ

gerry gill said:

I would bust the 45 and replace all the way up from there.

Is there an easy way to tell if the 45 is cast?
It's original to the system from the mid 1920s but that's all I know about it. That and they all say "XS" or "SX" and have that rib on the back.

ChrisJ

icesailor said:

From the standpoint of a wet guy, it's almost a no brainer.

It might be a two man job if you can get a 2' wrench around the shoulder of the 1 1/2" ell below the floor. Between the fitting and the sill. To "back up" the torque/twist. Move the radiator out of the way (A hand truck and a properly sized piece of plywood to set the radiator on. To save that nice antique floor.

Put a 2' pipe wrench in the riser pipe and kick it with your hoof while someone backs it up from below. Take the brass valve off and get a longer nipple and reconnect it.

You can cut the pipe off below the floor and use other strategies, but its better than that being on the second floor. If you put some care and thought into it, you shouldn't have to "collapse" the pipe.

I always worked alone. I had this argumentative imaginary helper who was always telling me I couldn't do something without his help. So I figured out a way to do it without him. Then told him to fluck off. You can back that pipe up under the floor with creativity.

When I was EBO, I had a real helper who had a way with twisting sayings. One was "Where there's a way, there's a will". There's always a way to do it, if you have the will to figure it out and do it.

Not sure if the pipe will turn. Reason being when we did the new header for the boiler we tried using 4' wrenches on the 2" piping and it wasn't moving no matter what we did. I think we ended up crushing the pipe with the wrenches and finally gave up and collapsed it inside the fittings to get it out.

Not sure why that is because I know I've seen guys take apart 100 year old pipes. Perhaps it's something related to steam?

Bio

If it was me I would try to jack it up, steel is forgiving to a point or add an extension fitting to the valve http://www.supplyhouse.com/Jinan-J-BLXP-12-1-1-4-Black-Extension-Piece
Here is another idea found on the wall https://us.v-cdn.net/5021738/uploads/posts/7030/rad valve 1 001.JPG

RobG

I would just go with pipe extender as shown in Bio's post. Why try and recreate the wheel? If looks are a factor they are also made from machined brass. I don't know what size the pipe is, I only found the brass ones up to 3/4".

Rob

Abracadabra

i'd go with the extension piece as well. The brass valve should come off the pipe easily.

Paul48

Or, coupling, close nipple, valve, make some nice looking shims for the radiator.

ChrisJ

Bio said:

If it was me I would try to jack it up, steel is forgiving to a point or add an extension fitting to the valve http://www.supplyhouse.com/Jinan-J-BLXP-12-1-1-4-Black-Extension-Piece
Here is another idea found on the wall https://us.v-cdn.net/5021738/uploads/posts/7030/rad valve 1 001.JPG

RobG said:

I would just go with pipe extender as shown in Bio's post. Why try and recreate the wheel? If looks are a factor they are also made from machined brass. I don't know what size the pipe is, I only found the brass ones up to 3/4".

Rob

Abracadabra said:

i'd go with the extension piece as well. The brass valve should come off the pipe easily.

How much does the extension piece give approximately? I cannot find specifications on that.

RobG

What size is the pipe?

Rob

ChrisJ

I'm sorry I thought I mentioned that in the original post.

The pipe is 1 1/4".

RobG

Download the ward fitting catalog and look at page 15 and choose your pipe size.
http://wardfittings.com/Assets/PDFs/USwebpipecat.pdf



Rob

ChrisJ

Thanks RobG.
If i'm reading that right I'd have to put 1" shims under the radiator so that idea is out.

RobG

I guess you are probably better off removing the pipe. It shouldn't be as hard as you think. A couple of people and a couple of pipe wrenches, maybe a little heat. Worst case you have to take it back to the 45.

What size pipe and what is the space you need to make up?

Rob

ChrisJ

RobG said:

I guess you are probably better off removing the pipe. It shouldn't be as hard as you think. A couple of people and a couple of pipe wrenches, maybe a little heat. Worst case you have to take it back to the 45.

What size pipe and what is the space you need to make up?

Rob

1 1/4" to the radiator and I need about 1/2" more. When I push up on the pipe it moves the entire main rather than flexing the runout. If you look you can see a 90 deg takeoff in the bottom left of the picture. That is kind of a questionable setup and it works but the last thing I want is to raise it at all.

I picked up two 90s and a 45 today so we'll see what happens. The second 90 is for another radiator I may have to do this to as well but I'm hoping not because it's runout is 10' or so and between joists. I'm betting it will get me enough movement.

Bob Bona_4

It did look like an extender nip would be too long for this job.

ChrisJ

Looks like the other radiator in the room will be fine as it's runout is 10 feet or so and has plenty of flex in it.

These are the fittings I picked up locally for this project. They are Anvil brand cast iron. Does anyone have any opinions on how Anvil compares to Ward? I've never heard anyone mention Anvil before but Ward is everywhere. I liked the fact I could get them locally, they are cast iron and they are made in USA.

Bob Bona_4

They got some heavy duty looking hubs..go for it!

ChrisJ

Just cut the 45 off and split it.
I really don't think that was cast iron. I had to grind almost all the way through it and then using a cold chisel, which was digging into it I was able to get it to crack down the line I ground into it.

Grinding it also seemed smooth rather than coarse and powdery like I expected.

Does this sound like a cast fitting or a malleable? I didn't expect the chisel to leave dents in it like it was. It was definitely one of the original fittings from the mid 1920s.

Bob Bona_4

Cast. Success!

ChrisJ

Really? I assumed cast would crack a little easier. I drove the cold chisel into the groove near the pipe I was throwing out. As soon as I saw the crack form I grabbed a wrench and off it came.

Tomorrow the new pipe goes in and I'm replacing the radiator valve and spud. Bought a nice little Lenox close quarters saw just for the occasion.

ChrisJ

So, it took me around 30 minutes to bust that pipe apart Friday night after work. I was pretty satisfied with what I did in the time I did it.

Today my 1 hour project took 6 hours and resulted in absolutely nothing being done.

I had my usual luck in getting pipes cut and threaded. First place completely messed up two pieces, measured wrong and I think used conduit thread instead of NPT as they weren't even tapered. They decided to give up as their normal guy wasn't in. I can respect this but it was still a waste of an hour. Next place did ok other than threading the pipes a little on the loose side, ended up a little short so I went back for two a little longer (both the vertical pipe and horizontal pipe) and he cut the vertical the same length as the previous and the horizontal an inch shorter than the previous. By the time I realized they had already closed and I can't get back there until next weekend due to work ours etc.

So now the runout is plugged and I bought a used Ridgid 65R-TC on ebay along with 24" handle and a decent pipe vice. After buying it I realized not all of these have NPT dies in them so I guess I have to wait and see.

Either way I'm happy to say my days of buying threaded pipe from Lowes, Homer and a few other places are over. I can't handle the stress.

ChrisJ

Spud came out with little effort after cutting the nut off and putting a 24" wrench on it. New spud installed and ready to go once the pipe threader comes and I figure out how to use it.

Unfortunately I cannot find a single video on how to use a 65R.

Abracadabra

Ridgid instruction manual on the 65R:
Ridgid 65R Manual

ChrisJ

Abracadabra said:

Ridgid instruction manual on the 65R:
Ridgid 65R Manual

Hi Abracadabra,

Yeah I had found that last night but it's usually easier, at least for me if I can see someone actually using the tool.

ALIGA

another option which is a bit late, cut the legs of the radiator.

ChrisJ

ALIGA said:

another option which is a bit late, cut the legs of the radiator.

My dad wanted me to drill four small holes through the floating floor to let the radiator sit on the original floor and thus not need to modify the pipe.

I'm somewhat of a perfectionist with this stuff and I suffer because of it.

KC_Jones

"My dad wanted me to drill four small holes through the floating floor to let the radiator sit on the original floor and thus not need to modify the pipe."
Chris when I first read your post I was going to suggest the same thing, but I am also a perfectionist and thought better of it. Still made me laugh when I read that. Oh and I think our fathers would probably get along very well.....

Hap_Hazzard

If you can leave marks on it with a chisel it's malleable. If they'd been cast you could have chipped them. Malleability is the ability to be deformed by striking.

ChrisJ

Well,

This has been a hell of a learning experience, but it's finished assuming no leaks.

BobC

My arms hurt just looking at the pics., good job.

Bob

Fred

Time to skim that boiler again, Chris

KC_Jones

Don't remind him of that Fred. I think this is the second radiator he has re-piped this year. I did 2 more hours of skimming on mine today. At least I was able to kill some time by painting pipes. lol

Fred

Reminds me of my situation last winter. Everytime I got my boiler skimmed and running nicely, I'd get another bright idea that would require another skim OR TWO!

ChrisJ

Hi Fred,

Not time to skim yet, not even close as the oil from the two new sets of piping hasn't had any time to work it's way back.

I'm thinking probably late November or December.

I did try to keep things clean but you can only do so much.