Floor Board Radiant Converting To Underfloor?

HiccaBurp

My home was built in 1978 in N. IL. It is a raised ranch apx 1,400 sq ft. It has baseboard hot water heating. They added on about 1,000 sq ft of raised ranch in 2000 and installed a forced air system for that part of the house only.



I was planning on doing radiant under the floor for the whole 2,400 sq ft. Plus, I'd like to add radiant heat to the basement as well. My basement is not finished. It has studs up, but no drywall as of now.



Couple of questions:

1. What would be the best method to add underfloor radiant? Hangers? Transfer Plates? Staple up? Or other?

2. Will the recommended system be more efficient over the floor board radiant?

3. What about my basement. What recommendations for adding radiant?

4. My current boiler is a Peer Less cast iron. Will I be able to use this for now? I would like to switch to a high efficiency boiler, just trying to defer cost.

5. Would using a boiler for House Hot Water with a storage tank be advisable? If so, any special considerations?



Thank you!

Gordy

Floor Board Radiant??

Are you refering to baseboard hot water heat?

Zman

Converting

The first step is to do a room by room heat loss. Every room in your house loses heat to the outdoors at a different rate, therefore every needs to be treated differently from a heating point of view.



Next, you need to figure out what type of boiler you plan to install. High efficiency boilers are great products. The truth is they are not much more efficient than regular boilers unless you run them with low return water temps.

If you go the high efficiency route, you want to design your heat emitters for  return water temps no higher than about 130 degrees.



You will not get satisfactory performance out of a low temp radiant installation with plateless staple up or hangers. You need to pull the heat out of the tubing and transfer it to the occupants. Concrete and aluminum plates are very effective at this.



Do to the different heat losses in the different areas of the house, an assembly that is perfect for one space may not be appropriate for another. In floor radiant can be tough over existing uninsulated slabs.The downward heat loss is tough to overcome. A radiant ceiling or panel wall rad may be more appropriate for that application.



Your existing boiler is not designed for the low water temps the high efficiency boiler requires. You would likely need to do some extensive repiping to make it function correctly in a low temp environment.



Heating domestic water with your boiler via an indirect heater is a solid plan.



What type of existing warm floor do you have? Does it have aluminum?



Pictures always help



Carl

HiccaBurp

Updates

Gordy = yes. I updated my initial post with correct verbiage



Zman = Thanks for the reply and I will answer some of your questions.



(The first step is to do a room by room heat loss. Every room in your house loses heat to the outdoors at a different rate, therefore every needs to be treated differently from a heating point of view.)

Doing a heat loss of the current conditions will not be accurate. My plan is to remodel room by room the house(especially the original 1,400 sq ft). Each room will have the drywall removed, insulation updated and new windows installed. One of the main reasons I want to install the radiant under floor, is to remove the baseboard heat. This will allow me to repair the flooring and easier access to the drywall. This is a must. Make sense?





(Next, you need to figure out what type of boiler you plan to install. High efficiency boilers are great products. The truth is they are not much more efficient than regular boilers unless you run them with low return water temps.

If you go the high efficiency route, you want to design your heat emitters for return water temps no higher than about 130 degrees. )

I would like to use the existing boiler till it goes bad. Then I'd upgrade to a higher efficiency boiler. However, if the design requires a new boiler, I do have the means to do it.



(You will not get satisfactory performance out of a low temp radiant installation with plateless staple up or hangers. You need to pull the heat out of the tubing and transfer it to the occupants. Concrete and aluminum plates are very effective at this.)

Are you suggesting if I'm going to install the radiant tubes under the upper floors to use aluminum plates? Makes sense and I will spend the extra $$ to do it correct. Suggestions on product?



(Do to the different heat losses in the different areas of the house, an assembly that is perfect for one space may not be appropriate for another. In floor radiant can be tough over existing uninsulated slabs.The downward heat loss is tough to overcome. A radiant ceiling or panel wall rad may be more appropriate for that application.)

Doing a little internet research, looks like I can run the tubing on my basement framing walls so they act like heated wall panes? I will take some pics and upload when I get a chance and explain my thoughts better.



(Your existing boiler is not designed for the low water temps the high efficiency boiler requires. You would likely need to do some extensive repiping to make it function correctly in a low temp environment.)

If I can have someone lead me on the correct path, I will do it. I am a general contractor and have done much of my own work. I would like to do as much or all of the installation myself. Plus my neighbor/friend is a licensed plumber and he will help with much of the installation.



(Heating domestic water with your boiler via an indirect heater is a solid plan.)

How do I accommodate for domestic hot water? My hot water tank is 15 years old and would rather switch to boiler with reserve.



(What type of existing warm floor do you have? Does it have aluminum?)

I have baseboard hot water. It is copper tubbing with aluminum fins



(Pictures always help)

I will get some and uploaded it in the next day or two



Carl, thank you very much!



Alex

Zman

Converting

Alex,

I think you should do a before and after heat loss on the area you plan to remodel,just to see where you are.

The near boiler piping is quite a bit different when you go to high efficiency. You will save materials and labor if you do it now.

I personally prefer the thick extruded aluminum plates like uphoner joist track. There are other good ones out there as well.

I know it is counter intuitive, think about warm ceilings, (heat doesn't really rise) hot air is lighter than cold. Radiant heat is like a beam of light.

Check out uponers CDAM manuals as well as the Radiant panel association.

Carl

Gordy

Radiant ceiling option

Is a good one. Wondering how far your going with the remodel?



Radiant ceilings don't care what kind of floor covering you use.



It uses lower water temps than under floor with plates. Crucial if you step up to a high efficiency boiler in the future.



Depending on how for you go with the remodel could do a sandwich radiant floor. Gets the tubing closer to the work if you can Handle some floor elevation change.

BenWoj

Heating

Alex,



Sounds like a great project on your hands. I'm in the middle of one myself (removed baseboard heating (boiler) and installing underfloor/infloor heating (geothermal)). Like others have said, do yourself a favors and do a heat loss calc. You can change the numbers to what your going to change your insulation to. This will give you a close # to what you'll need for heating.



When we bought our house last year, the guy had underfloor heating in the living room. He had the tubes stapled to the subfloor with foam board between joists. Didn't work at all, even with those hot boiler tempts. My plan was to re-due this part of the floor, and install the tubes with metal plates stapled to the subfloor with insulation between all the joists (not leaving a space), but I'm starting to consider ripping up the floor and installing a thin slab, or pex between floaters. This gives me direct heat to my floor rather then having to go through 3/4 sub floor, then 3/4 flooring. I could keep it under floor, but I'm now considering efficiency.



Best tip I can give you is to think about your options. Let me know if you have any questions.

Rich_49

Motion

for radiant ceiling also .

http://jbblog.flopro.taco-hvac.com/deja-vu-all-over-again/