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Help...I bought a foreclosure

HouseApe
HouseApe Member Posts: 8
in THE MAIN WALL
Help I bought a foreclosure, guy took 75% of the baseboards, boiler and hot water tank and all five thermostats (and all the kitchen and bathroom cabinets and taps). Basically all I have left is the 1/2' PEX pipes!

 

House is 3900 sqft, and is 4 years old. I live in Canada and the closest city conversion factor data I could find was New Westminster BC, about 25 km's from my house.



I did the Slant/Fin Heat loss calculator and came up with 79,217 Btu @ 180F water temp and 72F indoor temp and a total of 149' of Fine/line 30 baseboards required. However I totaled up what was installed and they only put in 103' of Fine/line 30 (or similar) baseboards.



Three zones on the first floor and two on the second.



The house also has a 2000 sqft  5' crawl space that was not previously heated.

I'm in the process of getting quotes but want to understand what is needed before I get the quotes. 



What system should I put in?

1.     Atmospheric vent Boiler and separate atmospheric vent Hot Water tank

2.     Condensing Boiler and indirect hot water tank

3.     Condensing modulating Boiler and Hot Water all in one unit.



Will a 5 zone manifold and one circulator work?



Some photos of what's left. The red arrows are point to two lines that are capped off in the crawl space. Not sure if they were meant for a 6th zone in the crawl or just extras?

<img src="http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w10/HouseApe123/House/Boiler1_zpsb9d43d2d.jpg" width="574" height="761" alt="" />

<img src="http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w10/HouseApe123/House/Boiler2_zps781d4037.jpg" width="571" height="759" alt="" />

<img src="http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w10/HouseApe123/House/Boiler3_zps219da813.jpg" width="572" height="760" alt="" /> 

<img src="http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w10/HouseApe123/House/Boiler6_zps885f221f.jpg" alt="" />

<img src="http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w10/HouseApe123/House/Boiler7_zpsccdc9aad.jpg" alt="" />

Edit: corrected some room size info.

Comments

  • Rich_49
    Rich_49 Member Posts: 2,768
    That sucks

    Single combi unit but not like a wall hung low mass piece of garbage .  Check availability of this     http://www.htproducts.com/versahydro.html  . It won't disappoint you .  PHE130-55 , also comes in 80 and 119 gallon storage . Don't know how much DHW you require
    You didn't get what you didn't pay for and it will never be what you thought it would .
    Langans Plumbing & Heating LLC
    732-751-1560
    Serving most of New Jersey, Eastern Pa .
    Consultation, Design & Installation anywhere
    Rich McGrath 732-581-3833
  • Zman
    Zman Member Posts: 7,609
    How long?

    How long do you plan to stay in the house?

    The cheapest way in the short term is to replace it with what was removed. It looks like that was an atmospheric boiler and a gas water heater.



    If you you are planning on staying a while, a high efficiency unit is a  great idea. If you go with a high efficiency unit, I would suggest installing panel radiators designed for lower water temps. A high efficiency boiler is not highly efficient unless you can run it at low watertemps.



    You heat loss looks about right. I would say the original installer did not put in enough baseboard.



    Yes you can run all your zones with one circulator and zone valves.



    Carl
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
    Albert Einstein
  • HouseApe
    HouseApe Member Posts: 8
    Re: That Sucks

    It does suck be we bought it knowing that and got a great deal.

    Thanks I'll look into that unit as I have never seen it before.
  • HouseApe
    HouseApe Member Posts: 8
    Re: How Long

    Well I want to flip it. Wife want to stay. Since I have to buy baseboards I could go to the panel ones. I'm hoping the neighbor will let me into their mechanical room as they have the same house. I do believe it was a super hot installed originally.



    Can I get more Btu's out of the same length panel radiators? I don't want to start opening the ceiling to change the plumbing for longer rads.
  • Zman
    Zman Member Posts: 7,609
    Radiators

    Unless you think the house will be worth more with the high efficiency stuff, it sounds like you should replace it with the same. You should be able to make the rads longer by doubling back under the fins.

    Carl
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
    Albert Einstein
  • heatpro02920
    heatpro02920 Member Posts: 991
    edited August 2014
    Put back what was there

    It must have worked good, the guy took it with him...



    If it were me piping it I would put a bumble bee on each zone, put the manifold on that wall, simple enough with a few pieces of unistrut, mount the expansion tank, water feed ect all on that wall... Use a taco 6 zone relay with priority a 50 gallon smart indirect tank, and call it a day...



    If you want to get fancy put 2 small boilers instead of one large one with a nice dual boiler control...
  • HouseApe
    HouseApe Member Posts: 8
    Re: Put back what was there

    I got a quote today and it was over 8k + tax. Guy did not seem to understand I don't have the rad's need for the heat loss and if I run them lower than 180 with a condensing unit it will make a bad situation even worse.

    I'm thinking of 100K atmospheric boiler and a indirect 60 gal tank it kind of the mid range way to go.

    Just looked up the Bumble Bee and that looks interesting. Can you list out the suggested equipment as I did not find the manifold and 6 way relay.
  • HouseApe
    HouseApe Member Posts: 8
    Radiators

    Thanks for the suggestion. Think I just might do that in a few rooms. 
  • icesailor
    icesailor Member Posts: 7,265
    Inside Temperature:

    Why are you using 72 degrees inside? You won't be setting it at that. Most use 70 degrees. You won't need as much baseboard You might be a little heavy on the emitters.
  • kcopp
    kcopp Member Posts: 4,462
    edited August 2014
    is the pex....

    compromised? Did it freeze? Is it O2 barrier pex? How many baths? I am thinking a modest wall hung would clean up the room well.... Natural gas or LP?
  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 5,764
    freezing

    You should definitely pressure test all that pex.  When people do that much damage you have no idea what you are getting.  For all you know they filled the tube with water so it would freeze and burst the tube over the winter, then when you fill it up....  I am just a homeowner, but I know a bunch of people who have gotten into the "good deal" on a foreclosure.  Be careful and good luck!
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
  • HouseApe
    HouseApe Member Posts: 8
    PEX

    Where I live its only below freezing maybe 1 week a year. But yes will have everything pressure tested. I do believe its the proper PEX, it red on the outside and black in the inside.    
  • Tim Potter
    Tim Potter Member Posts: 273
    Picture of the printing on the tubing

    If you could post a picture of the writing on the tubing, that would allow confirmation of the correct tubing.



    Don't be tempted to oversize your boiler, the slant fin has a big fudge factor built in already, there are plenty of stories on the wall regarding modulating boilers running at way less than 100% on the coldest day of the year with a properly preformed heat loss.



    I've read stores on the wall about people that have been happy with adding the maximum baseboard so the boiler can condense 90% of the year. Play with the baseboard lengths & see if you can get the supply temps down. You could also run a Taco BumbleBee on a 20* delta T, that helps keep the return water temps down & increases your efficiency.



    Plenty of good ideas here on the wall.



    You have an opportunity to spend a little more & really have a nice system when you are finished.



    Tim
    Winter Park, CO & Arvada, CO
  • HouseApe
    HouseApe Member Posts: 8
    Contractors in the lower mainland, BC

    I'll post a pic of the PEX when I get back home as I'm in Newark for work this week.

    Any one in the lower mainland of BC want to come and tackle this job? 
  • heatpro02920
    heatpro02920 Member Posts: 991
    edited August 2014
    OK, some more info for you..

    First, red on the outside black on the inside pex, made me laugh, I only heard that one other time and it was in a supply house there was a guy at the counter asking for red exterior black interior pex...



    ANYWAY...



    Hot water- Figure out what you need, don't just pick a size off the top of your head... How many showers and how many people? Do the math, what is the most dhw you will ever use? Say 2 showers and a washing machine- A phase 3 smart 40 tank will do that, save you money and last longer...





    Next the boiler...

    Manifold- I would make the manifold, most likely the tubes are not going to be any prefabbed friendly order, so I would make it all by hand..



    switching relay- http://www.supplyhouse.com/Taco-SR506-EXP-4-6-Zone-Switching-Relay-w-Priority 6 zones 5 for your heating loops and 1 for your tank...

    I would look into some sort of outdoor reset either in the aquastat like a hydro level or with the taco zone control like the pc700 from taco that can be used with the above zone control...



    The bumble bees are a great circulator and I use them a lot, so far so good... I would stay with a cast iron conventional boiler if I were you, I install a lot of mod cons and they are nice but unless there is a huge rebate program that is going to pay you back a good percentage of the added cost I wouldn't bother...



    So thats about it, do your self a favor and use a good boiler, outdoor reset with primary secondary piping, outdoor combustion air, and bumble bee circs, the system will be efficient and last a long time with very little service issues...





    Like I said before a pair of small boilers would be even better.. For example 2 cga25's http://www.supplyhouse.com/Weil-Mclain-381-357-800-CGA-25-38000-BTU-Output-Boiler-Spark-Ignition-Nat-Gas vs a single cga5 http://www.supplyhouse.com/Weil-Mclain-381-357-806-CGA-5-102000-BTU-Output-Boiler-Spark-Ignition-Nat-Gas



    the energy saved from you running that single tiny 2.5 for 85% of the heating season and having the second one kick in and out only when needed is more than you would think. I have done a bunch of these systems with them specific boilers and it works awesome... you could simply change the above outdoor reset from a 700 to a 702 which will control both boilers http://www.supplyhouse.com/Taco-PC702-1-Taco-Boiler-Reset-Control-2-Stage-4110000-p so material wise its not that much more money...
  • HouseApe
    HouseApe Member Posts: 8
    PEX

    It's 1/2" OXYPEX



    In our old house we have a 50 gallon hot water tank and never ran out of hot water. I don't expect our usage pattern to change.



    4 people

    5 full bathrooms

    Kitchen sink

    Bar sink

    Laundry sink

    Dishwasher

    Clothes washer

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