feeding counter flow loops

clammy

I recently looked at a re pipejob on a larger peerless steam boiler ,aside from it being one of the worst piped copper steam jobs i have ever seen .I was even more mazed that it worked even though it defies all common sense  steam piping I kinda believe when i witnessed it operating there where not to many issue but it was also about 45 outside and they only turned the t stat up 1 or 2 degrees and he piping was not stone dead cold  i guess to later say it didn t do that before i got there but i think i have that covered  in my propasal  .I know if i would have done it it would have never workedwithout any question, but onto my queston .Aside from 3 parrell flow mains i have 2 counter flow loops which where not taken off the main as such ,the home is very old and overthe years afew addition where added so thats how the counter flows got in there ,If they ok the re pipe i considered over head feeding the counter flow loops and then dropping them below the waterline and tying them into the wet return .I planned on installing a tee on the counter flow main with the bull facing up which will get a supply feed off the main  and the run of the tee getting a nipple and then facing downward to return consensate back to the wet return .The other opition is to tythe bull onto the main and feed in the top and drop it down ti the wet return .I plan on going with my first plan unless some one has a better way.I have seen some counters done the second way which where fine and other times i have seen there and they had issues mostly due to running on apressuretroll instead of vaporstat.If i do get the job i will have to buy a new camera because i never seen any attempt to pipe a steam as this one is piped and that it works total amazing .Thanks for your opion  peace and good luck clammy

icesailor

Camera's:

Decent digital cameras are cheap now. If you have a Android like phones (I-Phone, Samsung Galaxy S-4) work well too. You can get a cheap point and shoot Canon SX Series from Amazon.com for less than $150.00 that will do the same as a $1,000 DSLR camera. The same as some spend on coffee and muffins in a week.

Its a business expense. Charge it off to the business.



http://www.amazon.com/Canon-PowerShot-Wide-Angle-Stabilized-3-0-Inch/dp/B00908BQCY/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1394718590&sr=8-2&keywords=canon+cameras+on+sale



Treat yourself right. No one else will. Especially the ones who are shopping for the cheapest price when trying to find someone to fix the last cheap piping Picasso they paid for.

There's never enough time to do it right. But always time for someone else to do it over.

nicholas bonham-carter

Correcting improper steam piping

What are the symptoms which now cause the home owner to want to correct?

Uneven heat in some areas, cold in others?

Noises water-hammer?

High fuel bills?

Water loss?

Shortened boiler life because of the copper pipe?

All of the above?

If they don't have enough symptoms, they may not know how badly the system is working, and not wish to spend any Monet.

Luckily Peerless has some definite instructions in its Color of Steam book showing exactly how a counter flow main should be piped, and they might benefit from reading that, and the Lost Art of Steam Heating, from here. You don't want to give too much of a description, in case they try to shop your piping program around. I think in one of the threads here is a story of how a steam pro gave detailed repiping instructions as part of a bid, and then the owner shopped the plan out to a cheap knucklehead, who did not follow the instructions. When things didn't work as planned, the owners sued not only the knucklehead, but also the steam pro!!!--NBC

clammy

it 's america you gotta choice

They knew they had issues and finally i guess a gas company employee suggested they should start by correcting  the piping.I was refferred by a supply house who generally does not refference anyone for steam promblems except one or two guys ,me being one of them and younger then the other guy also i had straightened out a couple larger 2 and one pipe system that where long time promblem jobs no one could get to work no biggie .There's is alot of issue on this one aside from the awesome copper header there,s  the counter flow loops  /lack of A dimesions on 2 dry returns  all rad vents shot wasted done  ,bunch of raditor supply valve pissing,packing and bonnetts ,rad union leaking and   some other wacky hack a do piping for a direct pipe loop along a converted porch entrance does it work no will it ever no and did it ever only if a miricale occurred highly doubtfull if not impossibel i have and will inform them of this yes .But i m giving them the straight line no BS not my stlye. and the same goes for the price it is what it is and no one can sraighten out 50 or 60 years of system negelect and farmers fixes with one swoop of a magic 4 ft pipe wrench if so may i have there number cause i will hire them or give them all my uncaped hero work .Thanks for the rant time peace and good luck clammy what about some piping ideas for what i posted or nobody got nothing

nicholas bonham-carter

Fixing Farmers fixes

Show us the pictures, and we'll go from there.

It sounds like bad venting, and resulting cranking up the pressure to compensate would be the first thing., and don't forget to check the thermostat!

Remind them that the initial fine tuning (venting, and pressure adjustment) is best carried out when it's still cold, and the copper pipe removal could be a summer job, along with correcting/dripping the counter flow branches (maybe using the old copper pipe removed from the boiler supplies).

Tell them that the initial improvement they will see from that work is only the beginning, and that the copper needs to be removed for reasons of longevity. If they like visiting scrap yards, tell them to take the scrap copper themselves to sell it. Otherwise they will never know how little it's worth (relatively).

Hope I haven't been preaching to the choir here, as I know from your many contributions here how experienced with steam you are!--NBC

jumper

don't remove the counterflow

If you're going to go overhead then the counterflow can be the final parts of the loops. Unless the copper connections failed already.