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Converting one pipe steam to hot water!?

Jlamb
Jlamb Member Posts: 14
in Strictly Steam
Anyone ever convert one pipe steam system to hot water? Or use the oventrop valves to do this?

Comments

  • nicholas bonham-carter
    nicholas bonham-carter Member Posts: 8,578
    Unusual conversion

    Is there some reason for your question?

    Is the present system not functioning properly?

    Any sort of conversion from steam to hot water will require new oiler, pipes, and radiators, to make sure there are no leaks, and that there is enough radiation capacity to heat with cooler water, instead of steam. Let's fix your system as it is.--NBC
  • Jlamb
    Jlamb Member Posts: 14
    Customer request

    Well it was a question posed by a customer of mine. She wants to keep the look of her "old" house but wants to get rid of the American standard/American radiator steam boiler she has and convert to gas but does not want to continue with steam. I have been directed a few times to these valves http://www.hydronicalternatives.com/getattachment/16707372-633d-4cff-a1c4-357fcfcaa8ef/Steam-to-Hot-Water-Conversion-Valve.aspx. Looks like the radiators that are there will be adequate for the space and have the correct tappings.Just curious if anyone had done this type of conversion. I realize the basement will have to be repiped to accommodate.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 16,231
    edited March 2014
    Steam

    If she does not want to continue with steam it must be because the system has never worked right. Personally, I'd never want a hot water system.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 5,796
    Ouput

    Wouldn't there be a serious output problem with this conversion?  I am not a pro, but steam has a lot more BTU's than hot water.  Not sure if anyone has the numbers for comparison, but wouldn't it be conceivable that the radiators would be undersized going to hot water essentially under sizing the system and then the house won't warm up.  I would be curious what the objection is to the steam?  If it isn't working correctly I would think it would be more cost effective to fix what is there than doing a massive conversion.  Just my opinion.
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 24,531
    I wouldn't recommend it, but...

    if the client is really interested, there are several things to consider.



    First: will the radiators (particularly if it's two story, the ones on the first floor) take the pressure?  10 to 15 psi is a lot different from 10 to 15 ounces.



    Second: Is there enough radiation?  This is particularly true if you are thinking of trying to run in a condensing mode.  That handout has the BTU per square foot figures for radiators; note that that temperature is the average of the inlet and outlet temperature, not the inlet temperature.



    Third: you will have to run one new pipe to each radiator; you'd be well advised to run all new piping, as the odds of the steam piping being arranged for decent hydronic work are slim to none -- even if it doesn't leak.



    That's for starters.



    Your client will not save money.  She would be much farther ahead in that regard bringing the steam system back to operating as it should and, if necessary, installing a nice new gas fired boiler.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • Charlie from wmass
    Charlie from wmass Member Posts: 4,362
    to the original question

    The valves will not be an issue for you, use them without a worry. I am guessing you are running two pex lines to each radiator and home running the lines. That said fixing the steam system and installing a properly sized and piped boiler would be better for return on investment and comfort. If you do not do steam hire me and make a mark up off me to do your steam work.
    Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

    cell # 413-841-6726
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
  • 98chaos
    98chaos Member Posts: 9
    Jlamb - You might want to review the finer points of this article:

    http://www.heatinghelp.com/article/350/Conversions/152/Converting-from-steam-to-hot-water-heat
  • Jlamb
    Jlamb Member Posts: 14
    Good article

    Good article, thanks. I tried to steer her from this, but a little bit of knowledge and the internet and you have a home owner/heating engineer. When she sees the price of the new system she won't think it's practical! All kidding aside , im not opposed to doing something I have never done before but i also don't want to spend un-needed time fixing something that shouldn't have been in the first place. Thanks for the help!
  • nicholas bonham-carter
    nicholas bonham-carter Member Posts: 8,578
    Has she been to the right sites on the internet

    Do a search here for mustashian , and you will see a prime example of misinformation on the subject of heating. The internet is a wonderful source of information but like any drug must be used with caution.

    The client may have seen the efficiency ratings of mod-con boilers in the range of 90+%, but it is the system efficiency which matters. Get her to come here, and she will soon see the benefits of repairing the system she already has.--NBC

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