Carlin Gas Conversion or new oil tank?

WMASS SteamHomeOwner

Note: I posted this same question in the gas heating section, sorry for duplicates but not sure if answers would vary.



I currently have a 1 pipe steam system with an oil fired Weil-McClain boiler. I've been told it could be 15-20 years old, it's a blue one not gold. Size AB-366E HE series 3.

I've owned the house for 7 years and the boiler has been regularly serviced (since I've owned) and I'm told it still runs at about 83% efficient.

The problem is my 50+yr old oil tank is starting to develop a small leak and it's time to replace it or convert to gas. The new oil tank would cost me about $2200 but I would get $1000 back from tank insurance, so $1200 OOP.

I've had one contractor (recommended by gas compay) come and say the boiler could be converted using a Carlin Conversion Burner & I'm waiting for a quote from him.

There is already an active gas line in the house that runs by the boiler to the dryer, but he told me he had to check if the size was big enough for both or if they would need to run a new line. Also I asked about the chimney and he recommended getting it inspected for a gas burner.

One important thing to note is I don't plan on being in this house for more than 2-3 more years if that long so I already think that eliminates the option of replacing the whole boiler with a new gas boiler (especially since there are no rebates for steam boilers). So I'm trying to make a smart decision based on me trying to sell the house in the next couple years.

Anybody have advice on Carlin conversion burners put on Weil-McClain steam boilers? Will this be more trouble/money than it's worth and I should just buy a new oil tank?

Thanks

Western Mass Steam Homeowner

nicholas bonham-carter

Return on investment

Damned if you do, and damned if you don't .

If you switch to gas at a higher cost than replacing the tank, you probably won't save enough in three years to pay for it. If you fix the tank, the prospective buyers in the future will try to get a discount as you are burning an inconvenient fuel.

Try the find a contractor button at the top for one of the experts here as opposed to someone from the yellow pages.

Don't be mislead by boiler efficiency figures, as it is system efficiency which is more important, aided by good main venting, low pressure, and correct boiler piping.--NBC

BobC

Probably worth it

The fuel savings alone probably make it worth it, My smith with the carlin EZ-Gas saved me about 45% last year over my Burnham V75 on oil. I changed mine out because of a tank that was beginning to weep and that Burnhas was not known for a long life so i ditched it at the same time.  Your boiler isn't much different than mine so you should see something like 40% savings.



If your in western Mass  have Charles Garrity take a look at it. The quality of gas company installs can be very spotty, you would be better off having someone who knows steam look at it. -



http://www.heatinghelp.com/professional/221/Charles-Garrity-and-Son-Plumbing-and-Heating



Bob

JeffM

tricky payback

Your timeline to sell is the tricky part of this equation. I have a successfully converted WM oil boiler (newer than yours, a Gold) with a Carlin EZ-Gas and am happy with it - my savings are in line with what BobC reports. I was closer to 50% savings the first year, but gas cost has risen this year so I don't expect it to stay that good. I will have paid back the conversion cost in 2-3 years of running, but since you're going to sell then you may be better off with the oil tank. See what the conversion cost comes back at. If you don't already have a liner in the chimney, you'll likely need one and that will add to the conversion cost significantly (it didn't factor into my math as I had already lined the chimney while burning oil).

WMASS SteamHomeOwner

Thanks

Thanks. I'm actually in Springfield MA so Garrity & Sons is about 40+ miles away, Wilson's in Northampton is listed as closer, maybe I'll contact them both and see what they say.

Selling in 2-3 years is definately the tough part, also Springfield real estate market isn't too good so I have to be careful not to "over-invest".

I realize I likely won't get a full ROI before I sell but I'm wondering if the Carlin gas burner would be a selling "upgrade" feature or would homebuyers/inspectors be scared of it because conversion burners are "quick fixes" and some say unreliable?

A new oil tank certainly won't wow buyers but at least it will pass inspections.



Does the chimney always have to be lined? The company that suggested the carlin burner said since it's an interior chimney that's not subject to as much condensation it could pass inspection without being lined. He also implied a local chimney company could tell me if it passes or fails & implied the city wouldn't even look at it. Is he full of it?



As far as improving the steam system as a whole, I've started replacing rad vents with vent-rite #1 & #11 for a small wall mounted rad by the front door. I'm now looking to replace the main vents on the 2 main dry returns, currently they are a Vent-Rite #33 & a Dole that's rusted over. Everything I've read says they are undersized vents and I should go with Gorton #1's on each main. Each main is 2" & probably about 20' long with 1" dry returns.

The near boiler piping looks to have been done incorrectly with copper but that's low on my list since it hasn't given me problems.

Nothing in the basement is insulated since the original asbestos was removed so that's also on my to-do list, probably just use foil backed bat insulation and foil tape to do it on the cheap since all the 1" thick pipe insulation online seems pricey.

JeffM

pipe insulation

If I were you, I'd spring the extra money for 1" thick rigid fiberglass pipe insulation as opposed to wrapping with bats & tape. It will look a lot better, which will work in your favor when you go to sell the place, plus it will be easier work for you to put up. When I did my pipes a couple years ago, I got it all from expressinsulation.com. Your mains aren't that long (I had over 100 feet to do), so the cost is reasonable. Just do the straight runs and skip fittings if you have to keep the cost down.

SWEI

In a tough market

natural gas heat should make the property more attractive to potential buyers.  With all the oil liability issues and associated MA regulation, the appraisal should also benefit.

WMASS SteamHomeOwner

Insulation

Thanks I'll look into that website for rigid fiberglass pipe insulation for the mains at least.

Is it worth the hassle to wrap the fittings with fiberglass bat and foil tape or just leave it?

Another question, how close to the boiler can I start my insulation without becoming a fire hazard? The main pipe(header) leaving the boiler is 2" copper (I think) that connects to either 2.5" or 3" for a short 2-3' before branching to the 2, 2" mains.

EBEBRATT-Ed

Tank

I would do the oil tank if it was my house base on your timeline.

The boiler is pretty old you could convert it to gas and then use the conversion burner over if the boiler failed if you decide to stay.

conversiontime

tough call

Assume that copper header has been there since install? If so that boiler may not have much life left due to years of stressing via expansion/contraction on the block--headers should always be threaded black pipe. So if you throw a conversion on there but do not redo the header a buyer or inspector in the know about cooper header may balk. So the best ROI may be new gas boiler correctly installed. You tend to get a better deal buying a whole new unit vs just the burner. NG home is easier to sell without a doubt and not necessarily totally on price vs oil. Oil tanks are major liability even when new.



Having said all that I was in similar situation 3 years ago with ticking time bomb 50+ yo oil tank in basement and 15 year oil burner. Had the 15 yo (then) boiler converted with riello burner, removed oil tank and input piping, installed ss liner as proactive preventative (ng burn vapor is acidic and will eat chimney mortar = major bill down the road). But I was fortunate enough that original boiler installed correctly as per manual so it was in good shape overall for its age.

Charlie from wmass

I live in Springfield

call me. I know a bit about steam boilers.

WMASS SteamHomeOwner

Carlin conversion quote

I got my first price quote back and it was for $2395 which includes removal of old burner, installation of Carlin EZ-Gas burner, cleaning of boiler & smoke pipe, barometric damper, 2-spill switches, a hardwired carbon monoxide detector, gas piping from meter & permit.

I still need to look into costs if chimney liner is required, and removal of the old oil tank.

Does this sound like a resonable quote?

Anything else I should be researching before making a decision?

I plan to call at least one more company for a competing quote.

Jamie Hall

Chortle...

That's an understatement and a half!

Charlie from wmass

We do not discuss pricing on the wall

it is one of the golden rules that keeps things civil on here. I still say it is good money after bad to put a conversion burner on a biler as old as you have.