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tekmar 363 and UNOCC

engrav
engrav Member Posts: 1
Bought a house with a tekmar 363. Has an installed switch for OCC and UNOCC. But when I put it on UNOCC the room temps do not change. (But DHW does go off).



I have all of the various numbers displayed by the 363 but not sure which are relevant to this question. Some are



I see

MIX ROOM Unocc 65

BOIL ROOM Unocc 65

DHW TANK UNOCC 80

SETPOINT Unocc off

WWSD Unocc 62



also

MIX ROOM Occ 70

MIX TERM base

MIX MIN 150

MIX INDR 100

MIX DSGN 220

OUT DSGN 32

MIX MAX off

MIXING flot

MOTR SPD 90

10K 2 DHW

BOIL ROOM occ 70

BOIL DSGN 200

BOIL MIN 180

BOIL MASS hevy

DHW THRU valv

DHW TANK occ 180

DHW PRI mix

SETPOINT occ 135

WWSD occ off



Have tried a couple of heating companies but neither seems masterful with the 363.



Have studied the data brochure but is rather beyond me at this point.



Thank you.

Comments

  • Zman
    Zman Member Posts: 6,792
    363

    The 363 is not designed to setback room temps.

    Those features are available in the TN4 and TN2 models.

    Carl
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
    Albert Einstein
  • engrav_2
    engrav_2 Member Posts: 6
    tekmar 363 and UNOCC

    thank you

    still confused so

    asked tekmar support who replied



    Not quite... The tekmarNet 2 and 4 thermostats provide individual setback and if set correctly can group thermostats to setback; but when a timer is wired to the Unocc terminal and common the SYSTEM will setback to all the Unocc settings. That is the system will reduce the boiler-mix targets to the UnOcc temp and thus reduce the room (zones) temperature.



    See page 5 of 40 of the 363 data brochure http://tekmarcontrols.com/images/_literature/363_d_06.pdf
  • Zman
    Zman Member Posts: 6,792
    Well

    I think that is a bad idea on most systems.

    If you lower the water temps to the point that the room temp is reduced, you will still have a call for heat and the boiler will be maintaining temp the entire time. I would bet that you will actually use more energy set up this way.

    This may work for some constant circ systems but is a bad idea for the average residential system.

    With TN2 and TN4 the setpoint to the room is lowered and the boiler temps are lowered. This is very different.

    Carl
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
    Albert Einstein
  • engrav_2
    engrav_2 Member Posts: 6
    tekmar 363 and UNOCC

    You may be right. It may be a dumb system for us since we are in the building intermittently. But the 363 is what we have and I am trying to understand it to see if we can use it in a manner more relevant to us. So first to understand UNOCC. And tekmar does say UNOCC will reduce water temp, will thus save energy, and the temps in the rooms will drop even if tstats are not changed.



    So if UNOCC is not the way, and we have a 363, how can I use the 363 when we are not in the building to save energy?



    Or should I just reduce the tstats?



    thank you.
  • Zman
    Zman Member Posts: 6,792
    Boiler

    What type of boiler do you have?

    What type of heat?
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
    Albert Einstein
  • engrav_2
    engrav_2 Member Posts: 6
    tekmar 363 and UNOCC

    When I return I will collect brands models and make a signature. Also will then be heating smarter. For now have a jpg of the boiler which uses oil. The adjacent boiler is not part of the house heating. House has several zones, one infloor and the others baseboard. In NW Washington so low temp is maybe 25 and high maybe 80. We are only in the building intermittently.
  • Zman
    Zman Member Posts: 6,792
    Details

    I think your best approach will be to find a way to setback the thermostats when you will be away for long periods. Using the 363 to turn off the DHW will also help, the unocc wwsd setting will also help save energy.

    You have a non condensing boiler. There are limits to how far you can safely turn it down.

    There are some changes that could be made to your present setting that would help with efficiency. I would want to be a little more familiar with you setup before making suggestions.

     Carl
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
    Albert Einstein
  • engrav_2
    engrav_2 Member Posts: 6
    tekmar 363 and UNOCC

    Thank you.



    Ah ha. You recommend what I actually do. When we leave I set the OCC UNOCC switch to UNOCC and turn down the tstats. UNOCC sets DHW to 80 and invokes the UNOCC mixing heating curve.



    Why don't I just do this and let that be that and move on? Tekmar and two contractors say no need to turn down the tstats, and if true would save a little diddling round. And, would be fun to understand this stuff. (am a newbie at 363)



    But tekmar also says some of the UNOCC settings are a "misapplication" including

    MIX INDR 100

    MIX DSGN 220

    OUT DSGN 32

    MIX MAX off

    BOIL DSGN 200



    So I stumble on. I appreciate your comments. I do have a call in to a new "expert" recommended by tekmar so maybe more info will arrive.



    If to max savings I must hit UNOCC AND reduce the 4 tstats, and can understand , that will be fine.



    Thank you again.
  • Zman
    Zman Member Posts: 6,792
    Direction

    I think there are quite a few settings that should be tweaked.

    This woulds be better done by a tech on site that can verify the way your system is setup and piped.









    MIX ROOM Unocc 65   Should be set to setback temp ( the temp you want the room during unocc)



    BOIL ROOM Unocc 65  same as mix room



    DHW TANK UNOCC 80   Why not off



    SETPOINT Unocc off  



    WWSD Unocc 62   this could be set lower (will turn off boiler based on outdoor temp)







    also



    MIX ROOM Occ 70   OK



    MIX TERM base       I thought you had  infloor



    MIX MIN 150           Seems high, usually more like 90 to110 depending on type



    MIX INDR 100    Very high, should be more like 70



    MIX DSGN 220   This is incorrect, should be in the 120 to 150 range, depending on type



    OUT DSGN 32  should be design temp for your area



    MIX MAX off     should be set



    MIXING flot



    MOTR SPD 90



    10K 2 DHW



    BOIL ROOM occ 70



    BOIL DSGN 200     This is too high



    BOIL MIN 180      This could go as low as 150 depending on needed output (will save energy)



    BOIL MASS hevy



    DHW THRU valv



    DHW TANK occ 180   Way too high



    DHW PRI mix



    SETPOINT occ 135



    WWSD occ off   I would turn this on and set to 65



    Carl
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
    Albert Einstein
  • engrav_2
    engrav_2 Member Posts: 6
    tekmar 363 and UNOCC

    nice, your recommendations and those of tekmar support in Canada are the same



    in fact, you only seem to differ on whether or not it is Ok to use UNOCC to reduce water temp, leave the tstats the same, and let the room temps float down (of course with current settings they do not float down)



    set by tech who can understand piping? yes, but cannot find one though third try has yet to call back (property is on an Whidbey Island and services are kinda skimpy)



    infloor? living room is infloor, rest of house is baseboard (living room is an add-on)



    tekmar support said making said changes should not hurt anything so if third tech try fails, I will do 'em myself



    you have been helpful, email me your address, I will send a consultation fee
  • Zman
    Zman Member Posts: 6,792
    Setback

    In theory doing the setback using water temp should work. You calculate the water temp needed to match the heat loss at a given indoor temp and you are good to go.



    Here is my problem with it.

    The boiler will be calling and hot anytime the outdoor temp is below the WWSD setpoint. Anytime the boiler is hot, you are wasting some heat and electricity.



    The boiler and baseboard loop will have to remain above 150 supply to prevent boiler condensation. On warmer days the unocc heating curve will be lower than 150. The house will heat to the t-stat setpoint regardless.



    A heat loss calc is an average estimation. On the average 25 degree day with overcast sky's and light wind, the estimate will be pretty close and the system will match the temp very closely.

    On a calm 25 degree day with lot's of sunshine, the house will overheat.

    On a super windy 25 degree night, There will not be enough heat.



    If you decide to make the adjustments yourself, just go slow and record everything.

    There are settings that will make the system nonfunctional if they are incorrect.

    Tekmar has a job record sheet for most products that make the process easier.



    Carl
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
    Albert Einstein
  • engrav_2
    engrav_2 Member Posts: 6
    tekmar 363 and UNOCC

    Got it, thank you.

    Still working on a trained person to come & fix.

    Will post outcome when I have an outcome.