Is venting needed?

kamruz

Hi,

My main vent is located about 1 feet before last elbow on the main line and about 30' away from the boiler, currently I have gorton #5 (people usually put it on radiator)directly screwed on the main line.

Is this correct? What can I do about it?

Since it is only 30' long, does it really need a vent and what size vent?

Please advise



Thanks

Hap_Hazzard

First

What type of system is this? One pipe or two? Counterflow or parallel? Just one main branch? Where is the return in relation to the existing vent? What size is the main? How many radiators are connected to it?



For a typical one-pipe system (if there is such a thing) a 30' 2" main would need something like a Gorton #2 or two or three #1s.

kamruz

Info

It is steam, two big pipes coming out of the boiler, return is 1 foot after the last elbow, the main line is 3 inch. I have two floors and total 8 radiators are connected.

Thanks

Hap_Hazzard

How many pipes are connected to each radiator?

When we talk about one-pipe vs. two-pipe steam we're referring to the number of pipes connected to each radiator. It may seem like a minor detail, but the way the systems operate is very different, especially when it comes to venting.



Also, when you say the main is three inch pipe, is this the outside diameter? Two inch schedule 40 pipe is a little over three inches OD. I wouldn't expect it to be any bigger an a small system.

kamruz

More info

Sorry I am new here. So now I know, I have one pipe system and I don't know size of the pipe I am attaching pictures.

Can you also tell me what size vent do I need in the boiler room return line, you see there is one currently.

kamruz

Picture

Main pipe and vent

kamruz

Pictures

Main pipes and vent

Jamie Hall

That's cute...

I'm not sure I've ever seen a radiator vent (which is what you have there) tapped into the side of a steam main before.



You needn't apologise for being new here; we all were, once upon a time!  That's how we learn.



You do need more main venting, though.  A Gorton #2 would be a really big improvement.  The location you have that little vent isn't bad with regard to the boiler and the end of the main, but I'm not really happy with having it tapped into the side like that.  It would be much better if it could be tapped into the top of the main...

Hap_Hazzard

Welcome!

I didn't mean to sound critical. I figured you were new and just wanted to bring you up to speed. You wouldn't believe how dumb I sounded before I started reading Dan's books and searching old posts here on The Wall. Feel free to look around, ask questions and have fun!

Hap_Hazzard

That looks familiar!

The way those system risers go up and into those separate main branches looks kind of like the way my boiler was piped. Same Stockham fittings too. Are those risers by any chance connected below the part that's shown?

Hap_Hazzard

I see a couple of Hoffman 1As

I'm not sure what they're mounted on. Look in the background of that picture of the risers. Are those dry returns? This looks a little unusual to me for a one-pipe system.

kamruz

Risers

They are not connected as i can see.

Yes there is a Hoffman #43 on a line, I think it is a return line. What should be there?

Hap_Hazzard

#43 is made for convectors

So it's basically a radiator vent. You need more. I thought it was a 4A--even though I wrote 1A--see I told you I was stupid :-) --which looks very similar except it has a 3/4" thread. Yours is 1/8". It's on the return to allow the main to vent through the return.



But frankly I'm more concerned about your near boiler piping. It's a mess. There's no header. They piped one riser to the equalizer--why I don't know--it should be connected to the header if there was one. If you're not having problems with wet steam it's only because the risers are so tall.



You might run into a problem if you improve the main venting, because it will increase the steam velocity, and it may blow more water up into the system. I don't want to discourage you, but it's something to keep an eye out for. You really should have someone come out and build you a nice drop header and sort out your main venting.



I tend to think of this kind of thing as a summer job, but that just because it took me months to do mine. These pros can do it all in less than a day.

Steamhead

I've done that

where the main was short enough. But I use the larger Gorton vents- 6, C, D- in that application. They work fine, as long as the main doesn't flood with water.



Those steam mains look like 2" pipe. How long are they?

kamruz

Advise

Thank you for the time you taking to explain.

I want know more and tell you more,

These piping are like this for years, 3 years ago I had put new boiler, this plumber just bought same boiler that I had and reconnect everything.

What should be the correct vent in the boiler room return line?

What is wet steam and dry, What do I have?

How does it blow more water into the system, what happen if it does and how can check it if it doing it?

Because of the mess in piping and lack of venting, is this why I am getting close to 3 psi on the gauge even though pressuretrol cut in at .5 and inside dial at 1?

kamruz

Advise please

Advise

JamesC in Stamford CT

pressurtrol

If the pressurtrol is not shutting the burner off at the right pressure, there are may possible causes, and usually it's because the pigtail pipe is clogged. So that should be removed and cleaned and reinstalled.



If the gauge under your pressuretrol is a 0 to 30 psi gauge, consider adding another gauge that runs only from 0 to 3 psi. The 30 psi guage is required by most local codes, but they are notoriously very inaccurate and the 0 to 3 psi gauges are more precise.



If the near boiler piping is not done right, it could cause the steam to push water up the pipes with it (wet steam). Rather, any water that is pushed into the header should find an easy path from the header down back into the boiler. From the pictures its a little hard for me to tell how bad the piping might be. But it ought to be corrected, but if it is working OK for now and you are not experiencing any problem, then in my opinion I would be to suggest waiting until warm weather to tackle the near-boiler piping.



But swapping you tiny radiator vents on the mains for larger ones should be done this season, sooner rather then later. Main vents should be sized to let out lots of air really quickly. so that the pipes in the cellar are filled with steam before the steam starts making its way up to the radiators. If the main vents are too small, then the boiler is working hard trying just to get steam to the ends of the mains.



I also suggest buying Dan's book, it will help you understand the mechanical of it all.

kamruz

Main vent

Thanks

if I put larger main vent, will there be any chance of steam pushing water into the system or pipes, since there is no header.

As you can see on the picture the Hoffman 43 is on the return line in the boiler room. Is the return line consider as main line too, should I put Gordon #1 there or is it too big for to be in the return line, can it cause the steam to come to boiler instead of going up to second and 1st radiator. What I learn so far is that #1 should go on short maim and #2 goes on the long main. Again what should I do about the Hoffman vent on the return line?

kamruz

Help

Any idea pls

JamesC in Stamford CT

larger main vent and wetter steam

Yes, I think there MIGHT be a chance, that if you installed properly sized main vents, that you might get wetter steam and cause imbalances/hammering/spitting.

If the system is working fine now, and there are no noticeable problems with water hammering or other issues, you might want to wait until spring and address the missing header problem at the same time as the undersized main vents.