3 Boiler Caravan - 6" Header - Kings Park, NY

JStar

Well, here we go again. We're still recovering, physically, from the last 2-boiler system. Thought it would be a good idea to not get too comfortable, and schedule another one.



Original thread from contact here:

<a href="http://www.heatinghelp.com/forum-thread/147625/looking-for-help-with-a-new-steam-boiler">http://www.heatinghelp.com/forum-thread/147625/looking-for-help-with-a-new-steam-boiler</a>



The old WM oil boiler cracked. We didn't do any of the demo. What a relief! It was enough work just getting the new boilers in. We'll be putting in a set of 3 SMITH 8S6 steam boilers with Carlin gas burners. The system has 5 zones, with zone valves on the mains. This seems like the ideal setup for a caravan-staging system. When few zones call, 1 or 2 boilers will be more than enough to handle the whole load. When 5 zones call, all 3 boilers will remain online.



We'll be removing an existing condensate tank that doesn't need to be there. It had a purpose with the older, higher water line (No B Dimension), but our smaller boilers will negate its necessity.



Going to use a set of 3 Monash #48 traps for venting. They'll take the place of 6 Gorton #2's. We'll also be upgrading all of the traps in the system; 35+ in total.



Here are a few pictures from Day 1. That point of view from the bottom of the stairs is going to give me nightmares tonight. Three 800lbs boilers + 15 steps = Jelly-legs. Thank goodness for electric stair climbers!

JStar

BONUS

We had been talking about the topic of thread-wicking in another thread. Here's what a pipe nipple looks like when wicked, for those curious.

ChrisJ

Cold!

We've got a few very cold nights coming up!  Is there any other heat in the building?



What are those things that look like pole pigs in a few of the pictures?  I sure could use electric stair climbers when I move one of my monitor tops.  While they are only 400lbs assembled it still sinks.

JStar

Heat

Boiler went down a month ago, so they've set up temporary heaters.



That mysterious item (just one; we moved it around) is a very, very, VERY old water heater.

ALIGA

Stairclimber

I wish I had one for bringing up the boiler to my house.



I didn't have jelly legs but a jelly back.

JStar

Stairs

I still have no idea how you got that boiler up those stairs. We were tired just carrying a few wrenches.

MDNLansing

2 Suggestons

Can you lay planks on the stairs and slide in and out using a wench and block and tackle rig?



Also, and engine lift is surprisingly stable, You might be able to overhang the stairs, hook it, and lift it out.



Just a though without even seen it. I'm sure you've this,

ALIGA

stairs

got it up with planks, homedepot appliance dolly and manpower.

ALIGA

one more pic

forgot to add, 2x4 used as well.

JStar

Stairs

Still looks terrible.

Hap_Hazzard

Now you're talking

I wouldn't think of putting anything cast iron on an inclined plank without a come-along and a safety chain attached.



A shop crane or gantry might work, but there are shop cranes and there are shop cranes. Most of the automotive ones run 1-2 tons. Shops the work on diesels have serious stuff.



This thread reminds me of the time I moved a grand piano into a theater where my sister was performing. Third floor balcony. Up the fire escape. Didn't put a scratch on it, and it didn't even need much tuning. I was a lot more patient back then.

JStar

Stairs

The first stair landing was about 3ft by 3ft, and nowhere to tie off a come-along. Unfortunately, the stair climber was the only option. Went down with little effort. The hard part was getting the boilers ONTO the landing (down one step). The boilers are about 35" wide.

JStar

Update

Day 2 & 3



Boilers in. Piping 90% complete. Had a few fittings get lost in transit between supply houses.



We're seeing the new Carlin burners for the first time. Love the new gas valve wiring. We are thrilled that they finally added a plug-in wire instead of that terrible little clip-on guard.



Here are some teaser photos.

ChrisJ

Improving

You know Jstar, at the rate you keep improving and upgrading your installs you're going to be installing pyrex headers by March.



Oh how I would have loved to pipe my boiler in pyrex. I'd gladly heat the basement just to see that in action all the time.

JStar

Zone Valves

Pop quiz! Don't look below if you want to guess the answer...



We never saw the old boiler operating, but we were told that the system suffered from major water hammer. Can you figure out why from the photo below?

JStar

Pop quiz. Answers

Answer:



No drip/trap at the inlet of the zone valves. One we cracked the union open, about 2 gallons of water came pouring out. Bingo!



So, we added F&T traps to every steam main with a zone valve that wasn't draining properly. The trap in the picture needed to lift condensate 12" up in order to connect to a higher dry return from a separate main.

JStar

Steam

Thanks. We're constantly analyzing our work to make improvements. The most important part of every job is to stand back and criticize every detail. We always ask the customers if they would have had us do something different if we were starting over. If they hesitate for even a second, we'll change whatever it is that bothers them.



Pyrex piping...well, let's just say that when I finally have a steam system of my own, you may be seeing a glass system.

Ironman

Cool

Now that's old school.

JStar

FINAL

We're done!

JStar

Details

Boiler staging behaving nicely. All three fire up on startup. Boiler #3 drops out as soon as the mains are hot. Boiler #2 cycles to maintain 10+ ounces. Boiler #1 stays on until the t-stats satisfy. The convectors were throwing out heat about 5 minutes after the header got steam.



We used a set of 3 Monash #48 traps for our venting. They seem to do a great job!



There are a countless number of bad traps throughout the system. We'll be going back to replace all of the elements, as well as to replace 3 of 5 faulty zone valves.

JStar

P.S.

A big thank you to Tom Smith, the local plumber/heating man, who endorsed our work, and helped us out throughout the job. Class act. I would highly recommend him to anyone in the area.

ChrisJ

Interesting

So essentially boiler #3 is your pickup factor and nothing more? Once the pipes are hot its no longer needed?



I'm curious about the reason to maintain 10 ounces or more in the system? Do larger systems require this kind of pressure? Best I can tell 1oz heats my entire house but I recall something having to do with friction loss in piping? I'm guessing much longer pipes need more pressure?



Beautiful install as always Joe. Have you considered insulating piping for customers as well? I'm not sure if any steam guys do that or not but I am curious how it happens and who does it.



Sorry for all of the questions tonight.

JStar

Answers

Yes, essentially, Boiler #3 takes care of the piping and pickup factor. Crazy that we need one boiler just to do that. It runs once, and shuts off until the next t-stat cycle.



We had about 200 ft of steam main, so our safest, lowest, operating pressure needs to be 10 ounces in order to maintain at least 1-2 ounces in the convectors. Lots of pipe in this system.



We often offer to insulate, then get a funny look when people see the price. The most typical response is, "Well...I could do that!" More often than not, we encourage people to insulate the piping themselves.

ChrisJ

Ah

So pressure is related to the length of piping.



Anyone who gives a weird look has not done it themselves. That and the fact the 1" stuff and thicker isn't cheap. The material alone costs a fortune. I hate insulating anything and just finished up the last bit I had besides the fittings. I still need to do those and I need to order more insulation to do my dry returns.

JStar

Pressure

Yup. You lose a certain amount of pressure from the length of piping from the header to the furthest radiator. You also take a hit for fittings and valves. Then you need to add a little safety margin.

MDNLansing

Hrmm

You know, brewers use clear vinyl tubing that is rated for high heat. I would assume it also has a low expansion rate if they use it with boiling liquid.

vaporvac

Better & better!

These installs just seem to get better! It looks like this one has its controls coming off of the take-off to the mains?  Those burners look so tiny. I can't even imagine what it must be like in the middleof thisjob. It's great the "man on the ground" was able to work with you so well, as he's probably the one who'll maintain it.

MDNLansing

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Edit





comment posted twice

MDNLansing

Looks Like

A block and tackle chain hoist would have worked anchored to that tree. Of course, I wasn't there so I'm not going to question

ALIGA

boilers look like lil soldiers

getting ready for battle!

HPS

wrench

Joe, Did you have to use the stair climing hand cart to remove that 4' stillson when you were finished with those boilers?

JStar

Wrench

I think we're going to put an engine and wheels on the 5ft wrench...