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Circulater for condensate loop off of steam boiler

I have a condensate loop off my steam boiler with a Taco 007 cast iron circulator that has been in place for five year or so. I notice that the circulator is starting the make a slightly different sound and realize that the original installation should have had a bronze or stainless steel circulator. The water circulates through and Everhot heat exchanger.



I want to avoid losing heat unexpectedly and figure I should replace it with the correct circulator before it seizes. Am I being overly cautious? Can I install a stainless steel 007 with the same cast iron flanges? There is a shut-off valve on each flange.



Thanks.



Steve G.

Newton, MA
Steve from Newton, MA

Comments

  • kcopp
    kcopp Member Posts: 3,823
    the truly....

    correct circulator would be a 3 piece bronze circ. B&G 100 or a taco 110. Or you can just replace the 007 every 3-5 yrs.
  • Steve Garson_2
    Steve Garson_2 Member Posts: 638
    Stainless ?

    Understanding the shortcomings, and the cost of the right circulator, is there any benefit to replace with stainless? Or should I just replace the cartridge? A bit hard to stomach the cost of the three piece circulator when the installer made it so easy to swap out what is there.
    Steve from Newton, MA
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 6,579
    3 Piece

    A 3 piece is the same distance flange to flange (6.5 in.) and will bolt right in. The problem with any wet rotor circ is that the bearings are water lubricated and are not able to withstand condensate water.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • kcopp
    kcopp Member Posts: 3,823
    no...

    the circ body is not the problem. Its the bearings. Just change out the entire pump for another 007 then. Don't even bother w/ just the cartridge.
  • Steve Whitbeck
    Steve Whitbeck Member Posts: 669
    pump

    You can't use a wet rotor pump. I can't believe it lasted this long. The condensate water is incredibly dirty with sediment. The sediment gets in the bearings and destroys them. The right pump is going to cost a lot more than an 007 so if you got 5 years out of this one you might want to just install another and cross your fingers..
  • Steve Garson_2
    Steve Garson_2 Member Posts: 638
    Taco 110 - cast iron or stainless steel

    Looking at the spec sheet for the 110, it says to use bronze for unsealed systems. But the regular model has non-ferrous impeller and bronze sleeve bearings and stainless steel shaft. Is this the correct one to buy? I see some used ones online which make it affordable.



    Also, the spec sheet shows that the flange to flange measurement is 1/16" smaller than the 007.



    Thoughts?
    Steve from Newton, MA
  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,837
    edited December 2013
    It's not the shaft you're worried about...

    It's the cast iron volute that will go away...



    ME
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
  • Steve Garson_2
    Steve Garson_2 Member Posts: 638
    Volute

    So I should get the stainless steel version so there is no cast iron contacting the water?
    Steve from Newton, MA
  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,837
    Correct...

    No ferrous components can come onto contact with highly oxygenated water.



    ME
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
  • Steve Whitbeck
    Steve Whitbeck Member Posts: 669
    pump

    Its not the volute rusting out that worries me. It is the WET ROTOR bearings being destroyed by the crud in the condensate water. The volute will outlast the bearings. I can't understand how they lasted 5 years.
  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,837
    Yeah but...

    I stand by my statement. NO ferrous components in a highly oxygenated fluid environment. If you've ever looked at the inside of the suction channel on a misapplied pump like this, you'd understand why. Grundfos filters the water that goes into their bearing, and then don't exchange the fluid constantly like some other wet rotor manufacturers do. The oxygen destroys the inlet channel with rust.



    Steve, you're implying that it's OK to use a cast iron pump volute in an open environment, and I understand your concerns about the bearings, but the industry standard says NO ferrous components, regardless of how thick they are, in a an open loop…. Period.



    ME
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
  • Steve Whitbeck
    Steve Whitbeck Member Posts: 669
    pump

    Mark - I agree it should be bronze or stainless, AND I did not imply it was proper.

    All I said was if he got 5 years out of the old one and a new proper pump is at least 2 times the cost. It might be OK to just install a new pump of the same.

    OH and the boiler itself is cast iron. Yes everything not bronze, brass or stainless gets real nasty with rust.

    I never install a wet rotor pump on a condensate loop. I use air cooled. But they don't live long either due to the heat and crud in the water.
  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,837
    So long as other reading this thread understand...

    That is what I am worried about. You and your opinion are viewed by people visiting this site as a "professional". You said "Its not the volute rusting out that worries me.", and that could be misconstrued as it being OK to use a cast iron voluted pump. That's all I was worried about.



    I know you know better. I just want to make certain that other non professionals who are reading this thread understand.



    ME
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
  • Weezbo
    Weezbo Member Posts: 6,232
    ok ,

    lets install the circulator in a pit , that way in two years you can give it a decent burial : ))

    sorry ,

    buh bronze body will live long time .

    i never used a steel body so , i dont know what they would be like ..however the impellers on even the Band G i have seen looking like not much more than a wheel ,

    expensive is expensive buh cheap is not cheap.

    \Weezbo.
  • Steve Garson_2
    Steve Garson_2 Member Posts: 638
    edited December 2013
    Against conventional wisdom

    I just replaced the Taco 007-F5 circulator. I bought a stainless steel 007 as an open box item, though unused, on Ebay for $110.



    When I removed the old one, I expected it to be caked in rust. Not at all. Nada. The old one looked almost as good as new. Not a drop of crud on the impeller wheel. Yes, the bearings didn't spin smoothly, but after five years, they still spun easily when I turned them. Could it be the Rhomar treatment from years ago? I doubt it. I only add around 1 gallon of water a year, at most.



    I know that it is against conventional wisdom. But I got a bargain and I don't need to worry about it dying for another several years. I guess my boiler, an 8-year old WM SGO-4 runs pretty clean.



    Thanks for all the opinions. I'm keeping the one I removed as a backup, since it may have run another couple years, for all I know., Just doing preventative maintenance.



    Steve

    Boston, MA
    Steve from Newton, MA
  • Steamfitter66
    Steamfitter66 Member Posts: 117
    Good thing no condensate piping has ferrous components.

    Its not the cast iron its the bearings, thats why his pump is making noise.

    A cast iron pump is fine just like a cast fitting is.
  • BobC
    BobC Member Posts: 5,230
    i wonder

    if using something like Stem Master in the boiler would prolong the life of something like this. I have it in my boiler and the water I draw off the mug leg when do a PH test is as clean as it was a year ago, just a slight violet tinge to it.



    If you do use it DO NOT FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS on the bottle or you will end up with a PH of 13 when all you need is 9.



    Bob
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
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