Oil-Filled Radiator

bokaba

I live in a Victorian house built in 1900 that does not have a central heating system (actually has no heating system at all with the exception of a natural gas heater in one room). I am looking for a convenient and efficient way to heat my bedroom, which is 12 feet by 14 feet with 9 ft. plaster walls and wood floor. I have been using a "Utlitech" store brand oil filled radiator from Lowes recently and it is performing okay, but takes a long time to heat up and the lack of a fan does not move heat around the room. I tried a Lasko Cyclone ceramic heater, which worked nicely. I can't recall the Lasko, but the radiator pulls the full 1500W from the outlet and causes the lights to flicker when in use.  Should I stay with a radiator, get a different kind, or move to a fan heater?



During the winter it gets below freezing once and while, but not very often--it is mostly in the 40s at night.

Gordy

Stick with

The oil filled radiator.



Convection will move the heat just like hot water radiators, or base board.



I think you may be trying to expect to much in a short warm up period.



Don't know which model you have but some oil filled models can be run at 750 watts with the flip of a switch on the side.



Try running for longer periods using the thermostat setting on the unit. It will shut off when desired temp is reached.



If the lights flicker when the unit is turned on it's an indication that the circuit is overloading. Try a different outlet which may have a lesser load. Or unplug some of the loads on the circuit you are using.



You probably have a 15 amp circuit, and a 1500 watt heater is maxing that circuit out if anything else is on the same circuit.

icesailor

A flicker of dispair:

Before you go out and purchase any more high wattage heaters, you might want to see what is in the cellar for an electric panel or the wiring. That old Victorian crib may only have a 110 volt, 20 Amp service for the whole house. If the lights flicker, it is the sign of a more serious problem. You might even have a house full of knob and tube wiring. And you might have screw in fuses. Make sure (if you do) that someone hasn't put any 30,000 Amp pennies in the fuse receptacles.

On a very good day, that 1500 watt heater is good for about 5,000 BTU's if you have 125 volts at the plug.

If it can be done, get a Rannai LP gas heater, and a 100# cylinder. At least it won't burn the house down with an electrical fire.

bokaba

Oil Filled Radiator

I will go ahead and stick with the radiator for now. It can be turned down to 750 or 900 watts. It has a dial thermostat (not digital), so it is difficult to tell the temperature.

Gordy

Lurking at the panel

Just for piece of mind follow ice sailors advice. Being there is not any type of hvac lord knows what lurks at the service panel. Hate to see ya burn the house down to stay warm.



NEVER up size a fuse or breaker to prevent it from blowing, or tripping. Fuses are sized to protect the wiring in a circuit overload condition. 14 gauge wire no bigger than 15 amps. 12 gauge is 20 amps.

bokaba

Radiator

Any suggestions on a lower wattage heater? I doubt that we can get a gas line to my room. 

ChrisJ

flicker?

When you say flicker, do you mean they dim a little and stay dim until the heater turns off?  That is likely normal if the lights are on the same circuit.  We have a lot of these 1500W oil filled radiators around used for various things.  I even built a 24V wall thermostat controlled setup for one (long story).  Remember the internal thermostat on these only regulates the radiators temperature and is unaffected by room temperature.  It is perfectly normal for the lights on the same circuit to dim some while the heater is drawing current, even 900W should effect lights on the same circuit some.  1500W will effect them quite a bit but they should NOT flicker (change brightness rapidly nonstop).



But if the lights actually flicker and keep flickering I would be afraid, very afraid. Icesailor's advice is sound.  Check the panel out, make sure the fuses are sized correctly.  The last thing you want is 30A fuses on circuits wired for 15A or 20A. 

bokaba

Radiator

The lights do flicker, they only dim when the radiator changes between settings.

icesailor

30,000 Amp Fuses:

An electrician once told me that 1 penny placed in a 15 Amp fuse socket is equal to a 30,000 amp fuse.

MDNLansing

Eden Pure

Eden Pure makes several small heaters that run on less than 1500 watts. They really are good heaters for single room applications.

jumper

leave it on longer

Buy a 400 watt oil filled heater and leave it on longer. The NewAir AH-400 Energy Efficient 400 Watt Oil Filled Personal Space Heater has a temperature control. You can also hang drapes along the outside wall to feel warmer.

Weezbo

Bokaba

when you feel colder you put on a sweater or fat socks right ?

well, i live in a place in the nation where it was a recorded 10 below and outside my door last night early morning it was closer to 20 below , i do not like mattresses, so, i sleep on the floor .

i have some Canadian size 14 liners for my feet that fit into something akin to sorrels , that i use in colder weather to lounge about at the key board to help folks with various problems ... some of which cost a little bit of effort and unfortunately dollars .

there is a few thin foam type "Mats" available on the market these days , one is about the size of a sleeping bag about 1/4 " thick , it shields the concretes cold away from my body when i am at rest at nights . well,

it may work on box springs and mattress as well. you can "Iron " a pair of slacks with a towel and piece of cardboard using a similar technique . there is floor underlayment that is made in bigger chunks or sheets some 6'-0" and some 12'-0" and some installers have pieces left over that they might sell for almost pocket change ...

if you could get some of it , and live with the way it looked ,... had a small metal pan or fixed the heater you have to the wall so you would not inadvertently knock it over maybe set on a couple of thin "pavers ". you might find your comfort level increase significantly for very little capital out lay.

Weezbo

*~//:)

icesailor

Old Houses and pipes:

I guy I once worked with had a habit of turning words around. He used to say, "If there's way, there's a will".

If you need a gas line in your bedroom, someone with a way can find the will for it to happen.

Remember, a wire circuit is only as good as the worst connection between the appliance and the fuse. If you have flickering lights, it could be a symptom of a bad neutral. You NEVER in your life want to be in a building with a failing neutral. It can kill you quicker than a rattle snake. If its Knob & Tube, the wire splices are only wrapped around the main wire and soldered. Then, wrapped with tar tape. Which dries out and falls off. Then, the solder oxidizes off and you only have the tension of the wire being twisted around the main cable.  Those electric heaters all have neutral plugs. You need to be sure that you have a three pronged outlet plug that the ground connection is actually connected to something. If not, the ground safety part isn't there. Unless the factory supplied cord end only has two prongs, it MUST have a three prong outlet. Two wire adapters don't count.



If you've never been in a house with a completely failed Neutral, where there are big sparks jumping from the grounded metal door of a dishwasher and jumping to the refrigerator because they were on different legs of the 115/230, and the lights in part of the house are so bright that they look like the sun and lights across the room are so dim that you can see the bulb filaments, your attention will be grabbed immediately.



The same as when the your hair stands up on end just before lightning strikes near you. If it hits you, you won't remember because you'll be dead.

ChrisJ

Flicker?

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding something but to me if a circuit with lights on it flickers when a heavy load such as 1500W is connected to it I wouldn't just buy a smaller heater. I would have a big fear of that circuit until my self or an electrician had a look at it.



Flickering lights suggests a bad connection somewhere and bad connections often start fires.



Please have someone come in and go over everything.

Weezbo

the wiring is another thing entirely.

there is no real great way to explain all the vagaries of it ,

lets see

we could go with knob and tube ,

when you look at your receptacles in the wall are there two places to plug things or one ?

if one does it resemble a -l l or ll ?

knob and tube is going with the idea of not switching the neutral which sorta means you have one line with things pulling power as it makes its journey from the fuse box and back . as it gets further from the box it gets warmer and creates heat in the wire ,

that's good and its bad for different reasons.



right now , it is in Vogue to use three wires or more in some instances ,

this is different from parallel wiring.

some, very few ,knob and tube installers, used parallel wiring , and all that does is allow there to be some connection at the fuse box with more heat on it than the others around it and increase the distance and load on the circuit , which is also good and bad.



it is still basically only one wire .



Many homes of that vintage, were they insulated were using sawdust and small wood chips from the mill/s , and it might be very dry and highly volatile these days ...or it might have copious copies of old news papers stuffed in the walls ...or interior partitions ... The electricity that is used on one of these single line systems becomes hotter every time something gets plugged into the circuit . so if i plug a radio in it warms up a little , or a clock , no big deal however , if i plug in a coffee pot with a radio and clock in it , it just might blow a fuse. if it did not then you probably think its working and never think about that again however , if you turned on the toaster with the coffee pot bang the Fuse really is now need of being changed . mostly because the wire got too hot. The fuse is metering resistance on the line and the fuse takes a smoke break .



Motors , are a little bit different than the toaster , oil filled heater or a coffee pot . like your fridge might have a clock near it and that is all that can be plugged into that circuit .



something that warms the line a little bit helps the motor start ...



The motor starts with fire and the warmer the fire the easier it starts.



a lot of folks owned ice boxes , so they did not have a circuit for fridges ...



Most folks had Light and a radio and running water ! maybe ...a toaster.... wooo hoo! : )



ok so times changed , the 5 and dimes abounded , you could go there and see all the things that you never knew you could live without...



Hard to find pitcher pumps and many old school things as the days roll on ..



any way the electricity has something of a water type characteristic , when you pour off of the line then less goes to the next place , so if you have like one big pipe and set 10 places for it to pour out of it might not make it thru to the end of the pipe. it just might all run out of the first place it sees . electricity does that . Motors turn off and on a lot of times while running so things down line of it see it in the form of feast and famine or flicker ... these multiple fires that are going on are contained in the motor right enough , however the line experiences these ups and downs of Heat , or fire no fire .



These days , things changed a bit however it is still basically the same .



You can take out or abandon in place Knob and tube . Wire single arc fault , ground fault , circuits into a room from a circuit breaker panel or branch service feeder ,

however , there are a bunch of rules.. so , it requires permission to do . the reason being the people who live around you do not want any more surprises today...



Wire heated and cooled is sorta like a kid bending a piece of taffy back and forth to break it , as it gets hotter it gets skinnier and when the kid stops bending it waits for it to cool and bends it one more time it will snap or break off. wire does that .

thats the reason for these safety devises on the circuits these days , the very real likelihood of the chance of a fire.

thats why overloading wire or adding more taps on the pipe or "T"s , what electricians call "Splices and Taps" when knob and tube were the in thing , makes it even more likely a fire can happen ...



Like Ice sailor , i still hold my electricians licence , though i gave up on the contractor admin side a long time back , after wiring many homes new and old , small businesses , gen sets, capacitor banks , walk ins pad mounted transformers , motor starters , emergency battery back ups, fire and alarm panels , everything from Christmas tree lights to power plants , and a really long list of things on low voltage and some communication side so , i too agree with saying something about that side of the problem that you are experiencing getting heat into the room to feel comfortable.



placing the heater on pavers on a metal plate and fastening it in place i will stand by as right .

insulating the floor surface to reduce drafts though sorta different is more of an aesthetic type deal with some likelihood of meeting a flooring installer who is decent and might give you some benefit of his experiences ... he might even offer to bring the foam underlayment over in his van and take a look . many of the flooring contractors here , see good hydronic systems, radiant floors , and new construction practices daily and from time to time burn daylight with us on specifics .



it is warming up from overnight where it was at least 30 below in many peoples yards and probably 10 degrees warmer at the site they take the "Official" temp readings lol..



because of that folks have time to discuss building details and especially heating ...



Dans's Site heatinghelp.com is just like that we want to help oneanother stay in one piece and as comfortable as possible ... information is king as it were , what any of us do with that information is up to the individual. If someone says this or that and it does not jive with our experiences we sort it out. That way , maybe we change our perspective on a topic and can make better informed decisions.



i truly hope that helps . in what you are considering doing to bring your bedroom area safely more comfortable .



An electrical contractor might be someone the carpet layer has known in the business for years also , might ask him for a recommendation or two.



you might at least ask if he would make some voltage and amperage readings on individual lines

and make some suggestions on what he finds.















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