Is steam still a viable heating technology for new installs?

NetWareHead

This question is about a residential environment. I'll start off by saying that I happen to love old steam radiators and the large amount of heat they can radiate into a room. I think some of the most comfortable houses I have been in were either heated with a stove or had steam systems. Baseboard hot water is still relatively comfortable and forced hot air would be my last choice.



I can find plumbers that specialize in steam but they seem to be geared towards maintaining and prolonging the life of existing steam systems. One can still purchase steam boilers but I'm assuming that those are a drop in replacement/upgrade in an existing steam system.



Has anyone ever specified a steam heating system in new construction? Is this still done and is there a ballpark figure of how much more expensive it would be than a comparable baseboard hot water system? I understand steam needs to have the mains pitched towards the boiler to allow the condensate water to drain towards that direction, as well as pipe placement specifics which may complicate construction to accomodate the piping. Steam will not tolerate a poor installation while hot water is more forgiving. The pipes are thicker in a steam system and typically insulated which also adds to the costs. This is a subject I'd like to learn more about and would like to know what the expertise here thinks about this. Thanks...



Joe

ChrisJ

Not a pro

I'm not a pro and really cannot comment at all on this. But being a lot of guys are busy with the start of the heating season I wanted to give you this URL to a video by Gerry Gill.



He installed a mini-tube steam system in his home somewhat recently.



http://youtu.be/U_wLnyul-S0





Good luck on your project!

Rod

New Steam Systems

Hi Joe-  

   It is as you say it is in that most of steam heating work done now is replacement boilers and/or renovation old steam systems. There have been a few steam systems installed from scratch but these have usually been done by pros in their own homes. This doesn’t mean it couldn’t be done it’s just that you would have to find a pro who really understands steam heating or do it yourself.

Sadly a lot of pros think they understand steam heating, but really don’t, as evidenced by homeowners who come to this website every winter with butchered boiler replacements.



For a real cutting edge steam system you might want to take a look at what has been done by a expert Cleveland steam pro, Gerry Gill. He has built a “mini tube steam system” which is quite revolutionary in that it uses minimum diameter copper pipe/ tubing instead of black iron piping and is very efficient.  Here’s a link to his website: http://www.gwgillplumbingandheating.com/webapp/p/547/gerry%27s-own-house-steam-mini-tube-system

If you want more information on steam systems, there are a lot of good books on steam available in the Shop section of this website. I’d recommend staring with one called “The Lost Art of Steam Heating”. Here’s a link to it: http://www.heatinghelp.com/products/Steam-Heating-Books/25/68/Lost-Art-Of-Steam-Heating

- Rod



Edit: I posted this before I saw that Chris had already given you a link to the Mini Tube video. Look at the website too as there is addition information on there

jumper

out of fashion but

Steam heat may be out of fashion but it can be less expensive than HW to install in large buildings. And if done wisely it can be less expensive to maintain. Pumps and motors don't last forever.

SWEI

I suspect

that the cost and disruption of laying all that threaded pipe would scare off the majority of potential buyers.

steveray

agree with jumper

I agree with jumper, less moving parts is better! The laws of physical science allow the movement of heat. I've seen some very old stuff since I've been doing this. Usually the only thing that isn't working on a steam system is what's been fixed or changed. Furnaces and water boilers break .....a lot . However that's good for business.  

MDNLansing

Certainly Viable

Steam heat in new construction is certainly viable. At least from a function standpoint. Cost however, will probably make it prohibitive for most residential installations. While the system will probably last 3 times longer than, say, forced air, ROI will take a very long time. I suppose it all depends on where you want to invest your money in the house. To me, it makes sense to spend extra money on structure and comfort. If you want the house to last 150 years, and you want to love living in it for your entire life, you would obviously spend money like that. Most modern construction though is designed to allow for changing and reconfiguration over the years. Updating styles and changing floor plans to meet the needs of whoever lives there is usually at the forefront of the design. But, if you wanted to build a house you would live in forever, then hand down to your kids, you might now design that way. Moving steam pipes to expand your master bathroom 15 years from now might not even be possible. Stem could prevent you from changing floor plans in the future.



Personally, if I were to build a new house at this point in my life, it would be to live in forever. For me, steam heat might be an option. But, my family isn't expanding, I'm young and would live in it for a long long time, and I tend to focus my resources on function and comfort. I would certainly consider installing it in a new house.



But, if you don't plan to live there for 50 years, and/or you want the ability to change your home, you really have to consider the limitations of steam. Not just the cost of installation, but the ability to reconfigure. It could limit you, or prevent a future buyer from buying your home.



But there is no doubt, steam heat is probably the most comfortable way to heat a home. In our house, it's silent, and always just nice and warm. That's worth something to me, a lot actually.

Steamhead

I've done it too

as have others. It's certainly more expensive than scorched-error, but the added comfort and efficiency are worth it. Go here (post order is scrambled since this was migrated from the previous incarnation of The Wall):



http://www.heatinghelp.com/forum-thread/93976/The-worlds-youngest-steam-system

Eastman

delta P

I have a hard time seeing a future for low delta P systems that operate at high temperature.  This maximizes thermal distribution inefficiency and increases installation cost and inflexibility.



The diameters of Gerry's system are crazy small, that's a big driver of savings at installation and for efficiency.  Mini-Tube seems like the right idea.  The problem is the lack of modulating sources and controls.  Zoning is another tangential problem. 

jumper

some economies to consider

Modern construction is tighter and better insulated. So pipes can be smaller than olden days. Overhead distribution also allows smaller risers except for main one to attic. I'd use one pipe to save money and modulate with dampers or louvers on terminals. Those would be finned pipe. Also saves money. I'd seal the system and mechanically evacuate so that I could eliminate vents. Another economy. I suspect that such a steam system could be less expensive in a new building than ductwork. Only thing working against this is that furnaces can be cheaper than boilers.

ChrisJ

hermetic?

A hermetic steam system? Has this ever been done?



Sounds like a really cool idea, I just wonder how it would work.

BoBoBoB

Flexibility

You mentioned the inflexibility of steam...



Tabling the issue of efficiency for a moment, I would shy away from steam in new installs simply due the inflexibility of the system. If you use hot water, not only can you use oil/gas boilers, but you also have the option to integrate solar-thermal, heat pumps, storage tanks, and other technologies. With steam, you're pretty much limited to burning stuff as your heat source--most other heat sources are lower "quality" than necessary to boil water.



Then there's the flexibility of distribution and radiation. Do you see what happens when someone asks about changing or adding radiators to a steam system? The response usually ranges from a "it can be done if you hire an expert" to "don't even bother." And what's the solution? It's to add a hot water zone.

Rod

Sealed Vacuum Steam System

Hi - Here's a  link to the sealed Vaporad system . Modern,very efficient.

- Rod

http://www.fraccaro.it/fweb/index.php?/prod/home/en/all/vaporad//

ChrisJ

flexibility of distribution and radiation

While you're probably correct on the first half I feel you're mistaken on the second. And who knows, maybe when used in a vacuum, solar and other systems can produce steam.



The only reason so many people have trouble modifying, adding, removing and relocating radiators on steam systems is lack of education. As a homeowner I can easily add, move, or remove radiators from my single pipe system without any worry or concern.