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correct me if I'm wrong.

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Paul S_3
Paul S_3 Member Posts: 1,261
hey everyone correct me if I'm wrong I'm going to post some pics. they are of a steam boiler that a company just replaced. the problem is is that the customer is getting major water hammer throw out the system. the system has the original mains two inch. the only thing changed is the return a few years ago in copper. but they added radiators in the basement about chest high. They tee'd from the wet return up into the radiators?????.... how would steam ever get there? also water is backing out of the boiler and turning on the auto feeder..... the boiler is pipes in two inch and a manufacturer's specifications call for that.... the equalizer is piped in 1 1/2" which is what the manufacturer calls for.thanks Paul s
ASM Mechanical Company
Located in Staten Island NY
Servicing all 5 boroughs of NYC.
347-692-4777
ASMMECHANICALCORP@GMAIL.COM
ASMHVACNYC.COM
https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/asm-mechanical-company

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  • Paul S_3
    Paul S_3 Member Posts: 1,261
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    pics

    here are some pics
    ASM Mechanical Company
    Located in Staten Island NY
    Servicing all 5 boroughs of NYC.
    347-692-4777
    ASMMECHANICALCORP@GMAIL.COM
    ASMHVACNYC.COM
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/asm-mechanical-company
  • Paul S_3
    Paul S_3 Member Posts: 1,261
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    more

    More pics
    ASM Mechanical Company
    Located in Staten Island NY
    Servicing all 5 boroughs of NYC.
    347-692-4777
    ASMMECHANICALCORP@GMAIL.COM
    ASMHVACNYC.COM
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/asm-mechanical-company
  • Paul S_3
    Paul S_3 Member Posts: 1,261
    edited October 2013
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    tee

    the copper tee that's going up the wall is going to the radiator that is chest high which is in the basement that is the wet return . The main is above radiators....I believe of the main it supplies the radiator and the condensate drains through that copper pipe. customer says it worked perfectly before Paul s
    ASM Mechanical Company
    Located in Staten Island NY
    Servicing all 5 boroughs of NYC.
    347-692-4777
    ASMMECHANICALCORP@GMAIL.COM
    ASMHVACNYC.COM
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/asm-mechanical-company
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,788
    edited October 2013
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    Water level

    Were you skimming when you took the photo of the gauge glass?

    If not I would say you have the boiler way overfilled. Water level should be about half way up the gauge glass when cool.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 23,452
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    Say what?

    There are radiators piped off the wet return about chest high in the basement?  Is this one pipe?  I presume they have vents on them then... if it's two pipe, where does the feed pipe come from?



    In any event... if those radiators are even close to the water line of the boiler, as soon as the system starts making steam the water is going to back out of the boiler and into those radiators -- which can hold a lot of water.  No mystery there.



    Those radiators have to be at least 28" in a typical system above the water line of the boiler.  They must be fed from the steam main, but if it is a one pipe system that pipe down from the steam main has to continue down to a wet return, and there has to be a vent on the radiator.  You can do the same thing on two pipe, in which case both the pipe down from the steam main has to drip to a wet return and the outlet, through a trap, has to vent back up to a dry return and drip to a wet return or, alternatively, you can treat the radiator like a one pipe (yes, you can mix one pipe and two pipe setups if you do it right).



    Hard to say off hand where the hammer is coming from; keep in mind that it telegraphs through the pipes.  It could be those low radiators, though...
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • Paul S_3
    Paul S_3 Member Posts: 1,261
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    radiators

    Jamie... I did not open the walls yet but I believe these radiators are fed from the steam main overhead... and the main is tee'd into where the radiator valve is and goes into a wet return... this is all one pipe steam.... so basically you was saying before that the dimension A is from the lowest radiator in the basement correct?..... water hammer is definitely coming from a few radiators in the basement.... and they are spitting some ...Chris no I was not skimming the boiler it over fills in middle of cycle...thanks Paul s
    ASM Mechanical Company
    Located in Staten Island NY
    Servicing all 5 boroughs of NYC.
    347-692-4777
    ASMMECHANICALCORP@GMAIL.COM
    ASMHVACNYC.COM
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/asm-mechanical-company
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,788
    edited October 2013
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    Radiators

    Sounds like the condensate is backing up the return into those radiators. You don't need to open the valves for that to happen, do you? I can't see how things are piped.



    Either way your water is going somewhere and not returning very fast for some reason. Badly pitched pipes?
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • JohnNY
    JohnNY Member Posts: 3,231
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    Easy

    The water hammer's coming from that transition from cast iron fittings to copper close to the ceiling with a reducing bushing holding back lots of water in that horizontal line.



    You can't often reduce on horizontal pipe. Only vertical.



    You gotta fix that.



    The thermal image below shows water being held back by a reducing coupling.
    Contact John "JohnNY" Cataneo, NYC Master Plumber, Lic 1784
    Consulting & Troubleshooting
    Heating in NYC or NJ.
    Classes
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,788
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    Wow!

    I didn't notice that until you pointed it out.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Paul S_3
    Paul S_3 Member Posts: 1,261
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    radiators

    so how can I fix this problem the boiler is on blocks that give me about 3 inches.... the previous boiler was on the floor you think that would fix it? Paul s
    ASM Mechanical Company
    Located in Staten Island NY
    Servicing all 5 boroughs of NYC.
    347-692-4777
    ASMMECHANICALCORP@GMAIL.COM
    ASMHVACNYC.COM
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/asm-mechanical-company
  • JohnNY
    JohnNY Member Posts: 3,231
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    This...

    ...is what I do ;-)
    Contact John "JohnNY" Cataneo, NYC Master Plumber, Lic 1784
    Consulting & Troubleshooting
    Heating in NYC or NJ.
    Classes
  • Paul S_3
    Paul S_3 Member Posts: 1,261
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    Johnny

    use an eccentric coupling....or point it down.... and it's hard selling that to the customer when I worked for years before thanks Paul s
    ASM Mechanical Company
    Located in Staten Island NY
    Servicing all 5 boroughs of NYC.
    347-692-4777
    ASMMECHANICALCORP@GMAIL.COM
    ASMHVACNYC.COM
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/asm-mechanical-company
  • JohnNY
    JohnNY Member Posts: 3,231
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    That's very true.

    However, some times bad things stop being cooperative when you change something else in the system. All boilers make steam at different rates, so if the old one was able to push the trapped condensate through the funnel without creating an issue (it happens), the occupant might not have been made aware there was a deficiency in the piping. Lots of people learn to live with some amount of noise in a steam system. It's not right. It just is.



    Good luck.
    Contact John "JohnNY" Cataneo, NYC Master Plumber, Lic 1784
    Consulting & Troubleshooting
    Heating in NYC or NJ.
    Classes
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