thermastats for steam heat

johnpen

i really like the nest thermastat will it work well with our steam two pipe system? it is on the very high end in price. or is there another thermastat that will work with our system? we are looking for a new one this is older 1880s building with apartments and commerical space not rented. apartments are though no one is home during the day except one person who is a day sleeper. right now we have one of program ones. please help. whats the best temp for steam heat 72 is to hot 64 is to cold for the only female in the building



thanks

penny am the female in the building

Jamie Hall

Well...

You may get some differences of opinion on the Nest for steam heat.  In general, steam heat (and some types of hot water or radiant) do not work well with setbacks of any size, while forced air does.  The Nest's major advantage, as I understand it, is in attempting to economize by setting back the temperature when the space is unoccupied.



Therefore... no, I would not recommend the Nest.  There are, however, a number of very fine thermostats (which are a lot cheaper!), such as the Honeywell VisionPro 4000 or 8000, which work very well indeed with steam heat.



If there are differing temperature preferences among the occupants, there are also thermostatically controlled vents (for one pipe steam) or valves (for two pipe steam) to control the temperature in individual rooms.  First, though I would attempt to get the heat even in the building, then start fiddling from there if need be.



The best location for a single thermostat can be hard to determine; sometimes there may be a common space which is suitable.  Can't help much with that, as I don't know the building.



As to what is the best temperature... Ah.  People do fight over that, don't they?!  But it is generally easier to start warmer and turn down the vents or valves (as the case may be) in the rooms which are too warm for the occupants.

nicholas bonham-carter

Thermostats for steam

I second Jaimie's endorsement of the Honeywell Visionpro. It has a very useful feature which enables an optional remote sensor to be installed, enabling the the control portion to be in a secure place. I also agree with the in advisability of temperature setbacks, as the fuel saved during the low temperature period is soon Burt up when the templet urge rises.

Make sure that your present thermostat is setup for steam which in the Visionpro would be 1CH. Also make sure that your system is as balanced and well maintained as possible.

Some Tekmar thermostats are able to have 2 remote sensors with the average temperature being read by the control.--NBC

saikosis

What's a Setback?

Hi. Can someone explain what a setback is? I was considering replacing my ancient Texaco-branded Honeywell mercury thermostat with a Nest thermostat, but it sounds like they aren't right for my one-pipe system. Is a setback when you have different temperature settings throughout the day?

Toymotorhead

Setbacks

Thermostat

Setbacks at simplest form, turning down the thermostat when you are not

there. Weather it be you turning the dial down when you leave, or a

programmable thermostat, or a new age magical WiFi enabled internet iphone controlled thermostat,

that is all a setback is.



Hot water, and especially forced air

heating systems tend to respond very well to setbacks when you are not

in the building, as they can begin to bring heat into the room fairly

quickly (2-10 minutes typically) when it is needed. So setting back the thermostat

(turning it down) when no one is around can result in significant fuel

savings.



Steam systems typically do not respond well to large

setbacks on the thermostat. The simplest explanation has to do with the

mass of the system. On a steam system you typically have several

thousand pounds of cast iron radiators. It takes a lot of time to bring

that up to temperature, more so, if it has been off long enough to go

completely cold. This is only one of the many reasons why steam heat

reacts more slowly to changes in the setting of the thermostat. Therefor

most steam systems are happiest with only minor setbacks in

temperature, as it may take 10-30 minutes of on boiler on time for the

steam system to really begin to effect the room temperature.



This

is why you will find the different cycle per hour settings on

programmable thermostats. It is an attempt to make the thermostat work

better with different types of systems, as they all react with the

livable environment at different rates.



Some people have had poor results with the NEST thermostat on steam. Search the wall and you will find plenty of experiences and advice.



Just my $.02

Cheers

Richard.

johnpen

thermostats

thantks for the information we have the controls in our apartment for safe keeping if they dont pay for it they just turn up the heat this building has 25 large rads the bills for heat over they last ten years range from 1800.00 to 500.00 psi is low low low hearing that system should run every 1 to 2 hours instead of 5 to 6 hours last year we kept the temp at  the highest was 800.00 any way does this sound high we want to lower the bill but not freeze either



penny

Joe V_2

An old thread on the nest

The nest is an expensive t'stat.  But it works.  If you have a smartphone and wifi in the house, you can see what's going on.  You can even tell if the boiler has a fault preventing it from coming on.  Want control remotely?  Can be done.  Does it save money?  As much as any programmable t-stat will except you can control remotely and see what is going on.  My brother recieved one as a gift.  He loves it.  I wouldnt spend that much myself. 

http://www.heatinghelp.com/forum-thread/139200/You-Cant-Set-Cycles-per-Hour-on-a-Nest-Thermostat

Joe V_2

remote thermometer

You can place remote thermometers in typically cold apartments if you have control of t-stat.  If it is 68 in your apartment and 58 in another, I think the tennant in the cold apartment deserves a break on rent. 

SWEI

If it is 68 in your apartment and 58 in another

you need to have your system looked at by someone who really understands steam.  Your building was almost certainly comfortable and balanced when the system was originally installed.  Unless the building has been reconfigured or radiators have been removed, it can be returned to that state.  In many cases, the process is not very expensive.

johnpen

thermostats

how often should the boiler run every two hours of three i keep reading setbacks are not good for steam heat must be confused the thermoststs is acurate 68 though the building the boys like it cool

Jamie Hall

Depends a lot

on how cold it is outside!  There is no really general rule.  My own experience is that in warmer weather -- such as we are having just now in New England -- the boiler hardly runs at all; just in the morning coming out of a setback (we use a three degree setback -- as much to get a burst of warmth in the bathrooms and the breakfast area when we get up as anything else!).  In really cold weather -- close to design, say 0 to 10 above with a wind -- the boiler will run as much as 20 minutes every hour.  Being steam, the building stays warm (drops less than a degree) between runs.

saikosis

Thanks

Lots of good information. Thank you.

ChrisJ

Thermostats

Personally I avoid the Nest mainly because of complaints regarding it locking up and doing weird things.



I'm running a Honeywell Visionpro 8110 with touchscreen.  However I like to recommend the 5110 series with large screen to most people.  It is affordable, has a decent size screen and controls steam heat well when set to 1CPH.  It is available with a smaller screen which I do not recommend.  Proceed with caution if you plan on buying from Lowes or Homedepot as I would bet they carry the smaller screen model.



Here is a link to a 5110 with large screen at a store I buy from a lot.

http://www.pexsupply.com/Honeywell-TH5110D1022-The-FocusPRO-Large-Screen-Non-Programmable-Digital-Thermostat-Premier-White-4088000-p



Knowing what I do now, I probably would have just bought a 5110 for my self as well.  If you insist on having a programmable one (not recommended) then go for the 6110 with large screen : http://www.pexsupply.com/Honeywell-TH6110D1021-FocusPRO-Programmable-Thermostat-1H-1C-Large-Display-4077000-p





Not sure if this will help but in my single family home with single pipe steam heat I have two TRVs in use.  One in each of our larger bedrooms and they keep those rooms cooler then the rest of the house.  They can be adjusted as necessary depending on what you want.  I could adjust them so those rooms stay warmer as well.  Its essentially a mechanical thermostat that controls the air vent.  Even though I am using them in a single family home they are really intended for larger apartment buildings.

Shaun McDonnell

Had it

I actuallt purchased the nest a few months ago and just got around to installing it about 3-4 weeks ago. I seemed to have  a lot of issues with it at every turn. I have a basic 2 wire system that runs at 24 vac. According to the Nest site it should have worked but after 2 weeks of messing with it I had to return it. I ended up going with a Honeywell RTH7600D that I was able to install in a matter of minutes.

The short of my issues with the nest:

Overall it just works better with a common wire if you don't have one it causes problems 

It would cycle for no reason and just keep running I waited to to see if it would cycle off but it reached 20 minutes and was heating up the radiators. The heat was set to 58 deg and it was at least 75 in the house

The battery would not remain charged, that may be the reason it was cycling on but I didn't feel it was needed to burn oil to keep it charged.

Here is some othe rinfo I posted on Nest.co and some other spots:

https://community.nest.com/message/11056#11056 



Hope this helps

SWEI

Nest needs constant 24VAC

from everything I have read.  Generally, this requires three or more wires to the stat.