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Tank

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Tristar
Tristar Member Posts: 8
in Strictly Steam
This is a new one on me. Went to bid new steam boiler and found a tank in the condensate return raised up to the boiler water line steam piped into the top of the tank check valve on the condensate line. supply out of tank to boiler bellow water line. Checked the lost art of steam heat no mention. Any clue??

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  • EzzyT
    EzzyT Member Posts: 1,295
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    take some pictures

    sounds like a reservoir tank used for make up water on steam systems that require more water to make steam on these new low mass low content boilers
    E-Travis Mechanical LLC
    Etravismechanical@gmail.com
    201-887-8856
  • Tristar
    Tristar Member Posts: 8
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    Tank

    Unfortunately this is not a low mass boiler and is 35 years old. I do believe that the tank is to keep the boiler from over filling with condensate during off cycles such as through the summer. my biggest concern is the piping. No hartford loop and the check valve on the condensate pipe. Also this is a two pipe system. I believe that this is only supposed to be on a one pipe system. Any other thoughts.
  • jumper
    jumper Member Posts: 2,246
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    vented?

    Is the tank vented? Is it equalized? How high relative to the tank is the lowest radiator?
  • Tristar
    Tristar Member Posts: 8
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    wall

    No the tank is not vented. Yes the tank has an equalizer line from the boiler header. Did not check the distance from water line to lowest radiator but best guess is around 40".
  • Dave in QCA
    Dave in QCA Member Posts: 1,785
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    One-Pipe ?

    You indicate that the system is a 2-pipe system, but you think it's supposed to be a 1-pipe. Why? Can you explain?



    Pictures will help a lot.
    Dave in Quad Cities, America
    Weil-McLain 680 with Riello 2-stage burner, December 2012. Firing rate=375MBH Low, 690MBH Hi.
    System = Early Dunham 2-pipe Vacuo-Vapor (inlet and outlet both at bottom of radiators) Traps are Dunham #2 rebuilt w. Barnes-Jones Cage Units, Dunham-Bush 1E, Mepco 1E, and Armstrong TS-2. All valves haveTunstall orifices sized at 8 oz.
    Current connected load EDR= 1,259 sq ft, Original system EDR = 2,100 sq ft Vaporstat, 13 oz cutout, 4 oz cutin - Temp. control Tekmar 279.
    http://grandviewdavenport.com
  • Tristar
    Tristar Member Posts: 8
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    Tank

    No the system is a two pipe. I thank that the tank is for a one pipe. But do not know for a fact that is correct. I will take pic's and put on later today.
  • Tristar
    Tristar Member Posts: 8
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    pic's

    here they are
  • jumper
    jumper Member Posts: 2,246
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    no handhole?

    I 'd expect a handhole and a float valve inside.
  • Dave in QCA
    Dave in QCA Member Posts: 1,785
    edited October 2013
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    reservoir

    As Ezzy said in an earlier post, it sure looks like the typical set up for a reservoir tank, the purpose of which is increase the effective amount of water at the water line. It provides additional water when the steam and condensate is out and keeps the boiler from refilling with makeup and then winding up flooded when the condensate comes back. Weil-McLain suggests the use of these or a feed water tank on systems when the condensate returns slowly.



    http://www.weil-mclain.com/en/multimedia-library/pdf/weil-mclain-pdf/service-bulletins/SB0606.pdf
    Dave in Quad Cities, America
    Weil-McLain 680 with Riello 2-stage burner, December 2012. Firing rate=375MBH Low, 690MBH Hi.
    System = Early Dunham 2-pipe Vacuo-Vapor (inlet and outlet both at bottom of radiators) Traps are Dunham #2 rebuilt w. Barnes-Jones Cage Units, Dunham-Bush 1E, Mepco 1E, and Armstrong TS-2. All valves haveTunstall orifices sized at 8 oz.
    Current connected load EDR= 1,259 sq ft, Original system EDR = 2,100 sq ft Vaporstat, 13 oz cutout, 4 oz cutin - Temp. control Tekmar 279.
    http://grandviewdavenport.com
  • Tristar
    Tristar Member Posts: 8
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    Tank

    Ok I see that, and with other discussions I am ok with that, the only other problem is the Hartford loop, in less the tank has a riser pipe eternal to it on the condensate return side of the tank I do not see how the loop is formed.
  • vaporvac
    vaporvac Member Posts: 1,520
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    This touches on that question...

    Big disclaimer...just passing on info here, but this tough on that question.

    http://www.heatinghelp.com/forum-thread/147242/Hartford-Loop
    Two-pipe Trane vaporvacuum system; 1466 edr
    Twinned, staged Slantfin TR50s piped into 4" header with Riello G400 burners; 240K lead, 200K lag Btus. Controlled by Taco Relay and Honeywell RTH6580WF
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,061
    edited October 2013
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    Another tank with pictures.

    Tank with pictures:
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,061
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    Text for another Tank

    This is in the 100 year old church I service/maintain.  This gas boiler replaced the original?? coal to oil Kewanee looking fire tube boiler in 1980.  This is one pipe steam with dry returns and no pumps. The gas utility installed this boiler and tank.  The tank was probably fabricated by a certified gas pipe welder as were the joints on the headers.  (Threaded pieces with sections welded in between for the correct lengths). The tank baffled me for a long time>  I defined it as simply more boiler but with no fire under it.  And it also acts as the Hartford Loop.  The center of the 2" tee/elbow on the back is 2" below the water line.  This boiler is inspected by whom else but the Hartford Steam boiler insp. & ins. Co.  One inspector was impressed and commented that "they said that would never work" and took pictures.  There are two 2" wet returns out the bottom of the tank that go into the boiler.  The top has a 2" equalizer connected into the side of the upper header.  Wrong Huh??.  But works well and was probably the original tapping as the asbestos insulation has not been disturbed. Same with the 3" mains coming off each end of the header.  There is no check valve any here in the returns.  No valves anywhere.  However this tank is a great sludge collector.  Would this work for 2 pipe as well.

    Just more info hope it might be helpful.
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