Near boiler piping, re-do it?

1Pipe_Cape

Replacing the Burnham because it's got whole in it. Currently looking at Peerless WBV-03 or the EC-ETC-03. Thoughts are welcome on that, but I'm really here to ask about the near boiler piping. From what I've read, what is here is wrong, but it worked great before the boiler rusted out so what would the benefit of re-doing the T at the main be?

Thanks all,

Dave

JStar

Steam

The goal with proper near-boiler piping is to achieve as close to 100% dry steam as possible. Dry steam is happy steam. And happy steam works really hard to make you comfortable without lightening your wallet.



The bullheaded tee that you have now will produce wet steam. You'll be spending more money to run the boiler longer to heat the radiators.



It always makes sense to correct these issues.



You also have a cast iron circulator attached to the boiler. This type of pump does not handle steam boiler water very well. I'm sure you've had it replaced multiple times in the past. The circulator should be bronze or stainless steel.



You should look at the Burnham Mega-Steam or Crown FSZ. Three-pass heat exchangers will give you a better efficiency and easier maintenance.

Jamie Hall

Actually...

as I see it, the only real problem you have is that arrangement where the riser comes up from the boiler, then goes horizontal, and there is a T going off horizontally and then elbows 90 up to take the steam up to the mains.  That T off that lower horizontal pipe (which should be insulated, by the way) should go off vertically up, rather than going off horizontally and then elbowing up.



I don't see the T at the top of the main riser as a problem at all (sorry, Jstar!).  A T can be a problem if the flow comes in from both ends of the cross bar and out the leg, but not if it comes in any other way (this one comes in the leg and out both ends of the cross bar -- not a problem).



Whatever new boiler you get, be sure that the near boiler piping is done exactly as the boiler manual requires, as a minimum.  Don't cut any corners.

1Pipe_Cape

Thanks guys,

Jamie, that's what I was hoping to hear. The guy who I want to do the job was telling me it's ok, but I've seen drawings that suggest otherwise. Would this situation be a good candidate for a drop header? As Jstar says, the dryer the better, I want the happiest steam I can get within reason.

I am taking a closer look at the Mega-Steam, as my lower cost option of the WBV, does not seem to be tapped for an indirect HW in a steam application. Please correct me if I am wrong here, but that is how I read it.

Edit- I think I answered the indirect problem. It takes the hot water off the bottom of the boiler via the "return" and sends it back in via the "skim" or "safety valve" tapping.

kevin_58

near boiler piping

Cut it all out and pipe at boiler specs. Also cut out that bull nose tee. You must use 2 risers off the header. you could also go better and use drop header but at more cost.

Hap_Hazzard

Trouble with a capital T

First, the main branches can't both be pitched right if they're joined by a tee.



Second, water coming up that riser hits the bull of the tee and drops right back down the riser.

kevin_58

indirect

After reading your last post do not return indirect piping into skim tapping or relief tapping, they are above the water level. All boilers have return tappings on both sides supply from one return from the other.

Hap_Hazzard

You're right

In this case he's got enough vertical that a drop header isn't necessary with two risers, but they are easier to build.

kevin_58

drop header

Hap, I installed at least 100 boilers including some drop headers. I just dont get how drop headers are easier. You have more pipe more fittings. I cut every boiler out completly including sections of mains. When i put in a drop header i just install more pipe more fittings more labor.

nicholas bonham-carter

Reply to Kevin

I think in the case of 2 risers off the boiler, and 2 feeds off the header, the extra vertical height on the connections is easier for many people to pipe. The larger diameter header can be longer as well to catch all the drops of water as well.--NBC

Jamie Hall

Seems to me

that I seem to be in a bit of a minority position here, but...



You have a slightly unusual situation here, in that you have a lot of headroom to play with.  This isn't always true.



A drop header will, almost without exception, give better quality steam.  However... in this particular installation, I would expect the steam quality to be just as good if you came up from the boiler with a riser size and length in accordance with the boiler manufacturer's specifications, and hooked that (as your present situation does) into the end of a header pipe a couple of sizes larger in diameter than the riser.  That would go almost horizontally, but with a definite slope, over to the down connection for the equalizer.  Somewhere along that larger header pipe, I would take one or two T's off vertically -- the problem with your present set up in the picture is that the T comes off horizontally, which is a no-no from a header -- to supply the steam mains.



If the header isn't directly under the steam mains, I would offset the vertical portion of the mains from the header up with a pair of 45s.