Steam boiler 2 pipe system questions

JoshP

Hi

Wondering if someone can guide me along with some problems and questions I have with my steam boiler. It's an American Standard gas boiler. It says on the tag output is 192,000 btuh for the arg rating. Steam sq ft 600. Also this is in a residential house built in 1927. 3 stories.

I just bought The lost art of steam heating. I read the entire book in about 8 hours right after i got it. I still am not sure on some things.

1. Cut in and differential setting on the pressuretrol? My longest line to the furthest radiator is 50 ft. So double that makes 100. I don't know where to go from there to get my settings for my cut in and differential.

2. I attached pic of the boiler and header and pipes near the boiler. The system does not have a f&t valve. Should it? Also what is the valve for marked "Jenkins"? A check valve?

3. All my second floor radiators have vents someone added. Non of the first floor radiators have vents. From reading the book I don't think that is correct as none should have vents. Correct? I think it was done to compensate for bad steam traps?

4. I have a radiator that is close on the line to the boiler. It only heats across the top. Is the trap bad?

5. The two radiators last on the line on the second floor barely heat up all the way and you can hear it " breathing" as some would say. Is that due to the pressuretrol setting? Is this related to 4?

6. My last one ....... For now... When I hear the pipes "gushing" in the walls what does that indicate?

Any help would greatly be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Jamie Hall

Let's see here...

Easiest thing first: pressuretrol setting.  This setting is not affected by the length of lines.  It should be, for starters, a cutout of 1.5 and a cutin of 0.5 psi -- which is probably as low as it will go.  That will be ample for your building (after all, the Empire State building runs at 1.5 psi, and it's pretty good size...)



No, there shouldn't be vents on any of the radiators.  They may have been put on because of bad traps, but it's just as likely they were put on because "steam radiators have vents" (which is false).  They won't hurt anything for the moment, but they'll have to go eventually.



Most properly built two pipe steam systems do not need any fancy check valves or f&t traps.  What they do need is to make sure that first, all the pipes pitch properly to allow any condensate to return -- somehow -- to the boiler.  Each system is somewhat individual as to how this happens, but that's the idea.  Second, they need some way to keep steam out of the returns.  This may be radiator traps -- perhaps the most common approach -- but there are other ways to do it.  Third, they have to have the system vented.  There are two approaches to this; one is to have vents on the ends of the mains.  The other is to have cross over traps (like radiator traps, but set above the steam main) from the steam mains to the dry returns, and vents at the ends of the dry returns at the boiler.  Either way works -- the important part is that these main vents are how the air gets out of the system, thus allowing steam to get in.



Your "breathing" radiators may be suffering from bad traps.  More likely, they are suffering from badly pitched lines, allowing condensate to pool  Check the pitch, as noted above, on all your lines.



The radiator which gets only partly hot may have a bad trap.  It may also have the valve partly closed.  Have you checked that?



When you hear pipes gushing in the walls, that's a lot of condensate going somewhere -- which means it has been held up somewhere.  Again, check pitch.



I may have more thoughts later...

JoshP

Steam 2 pipe system

Thanks for the response.

 My Pressuretrol has one dial for Range (0 through 10) and one the Differential Dial (1 through 6). Range is the same as cut-in? So I can turn my Range down to .05 and the differential will be set at 2 (.5 +1)? Is that how that works?

The pitch on my pipes all look good. The radiators that are feed by the pipes that are making the "gushing" or "ocean noises" are both on the second floor. But not all my second floor radiator steam pipes make that noise. The lines that go straight up in the wall I cant see but the lines in the basement look to be pitched fine. I did place a level on the radiators and they are pitched toward the return. Would a stuck closed trap cause this noise?

I also forgot to mention 4 of the five second floor radiators have new shut off valves on them (there before I bought the house). But they are water valves not steam valves. If this a contributing problem?

MTC

Some thoughts...

Jamie, I think what OP is getting at with the length of pipes is Dan's LAOSH recommendation to have a minimum cut in of double the pressure drop of the piping. 100 equiv feet (to allow for fittings) at 2oz/hundred pressure drop, means that you should have a minimum cut in of 4 oz. This is to ensure that anytime the boiler is running, it has more than adequate pressure to get the steam to the furthest radiator, overcoming the resistance of all the piping.



With a pressuretrol, you can't get low enough in pretty much any residence to have to worry about this, you just set it as low as you can, as Jamie said. If you ever decide to switch to a vaporstat (a great investment, btw), then you'll need to do a little more thinking about your pressure settings, but you can generally start at about 10oz cut out with 6oz differential (which gives you 4oz cut in). But for now, for your pressuretrol, there is nothing to think about. Set the main on the front for .5psi, and the differential wheel inside for 1. That gives you the range Jamie was saying, and is the setting that all residential pressuretrols should be set for.



Your 2nd floor radiators are all 2 pipe radiators, correct? Sometimes you'll see a 2 pipe system on one floor, with only 1 pipe going to rads on another floor. Guess it was a way to save some money/work. But more likely, you just had a system that was having trouble heating the 2nd floor for one of various reasons (or some combo of them), and someone added vents to "help" the situation. As Jamie said, leave them there for now, but once you address other system problems, they should be removed.



Your near boiler piping is all wrong, as usual. It seems that they're completely wrong far more often than anywhere near correct.



Post pics of your radiators (make sure we can see both pipes going to/from the rad, and the valve on the rad), and of some of your piping, particularly at the end of the main where it connects to a return line. This will help us understand what kind of system you have better.

MTC

was posting while you were...

anyway, can you also post a pic of your pressuretrol? I'm not sure exactly what you have based on your description.



a failed closed trap will generally be pretty silent, though if you have a rad vent on that radiator, and the valve is at the top where it should be, the rad will fill up nicely with water. this makes for a nice fountain when you open up the trap body to service the traps...



but it shouldn't be noisy from a closed trap.



post pics please, and we should be able to help more.

JoshP

Steam boiler

My whole system is two pipe. Here is a pic of one of the second floor radiators. Both second floor of radiators in the rear of the house have the return on the same end as the supply. The front two second for radiators the return is on the opposite end.



I took some additional pics of the pipes near the boiler. At one time probably during the Kennedy administration way before I was born someone removed the coil boiler and put in the American standard gas job.

There is a dead end steam side line that is capped off. Not sure if that was part of the old coal unit. See last pic.

JoshP

Pressuretrol

Here are more pics

MTC

Your "dead end" line

is there any rad take-off lines from it, or does it go nowhere? When you go up from the boiler to near the ceiling, and you hit that Tee (wrong, btw, but thats another story...), is it the branch that goes off to the right there in your earlier pic? If it doesn't serve anything, you should have it removed. You don't want that setup - called a bullheaded Tee. Steam should only ever enter a Tee from one of the ends, not the side (or bull) of the tee. A header with 2 risers from the boiler is one exception to this rule, but as far as i know, its the only one.



The rads that have valve/return on same side - do they happen to be the ones that aren't heating well? That is not the right setup, and it can often lead to less than ideal heating. Sometimes you'll see a vent on opposite side to help draw the steam all the way across the radiator in this circumstance. I've found though, that it doesn't really help much - if the traps are working properly, it should still heat up most of the way with this non-ideal piping setup.



Are there any main vents? I don't see any in your pics. If so, where are they? If not, how the heck is your system breathing, other than through the vents on the upstairs rads? That would be a major problem, and the first thing to address, if there aren't main vents.



Range on your pressuretrol is the Cut-In setting. Set this for about .5. Differential should be set to 1. Cut In + Differential = Cut Out.

JoshP

Vents

Thanks for your help here.

The rads on the second floor farthest from the boiler just dont heat up very fast and usually when they are fully heated its not long enough to heat the room well. They do have a vent on the opposite end of the valve and return line. That's were you can hear it pushing the air out or some might say "breathing".



Pics attached of main vents near boiler. There are three in line.

JoshP

Pics

I can't get these darn pics right side up!

MTC

Ok,

so you have a steam line that comes up off the "header" (this is all piped wrong, but it should mostly sort of work as is), and bullheads 2 directions into 2 steam mains. These wrap around the house, and end up connecting to the return lines presumably at the end, which come back, combine into one pipe right where the vents are, and drop back to the boiler. At least that's what I'm seeing...



Where your steam main connects to the return on both mains, is there an F&T trap, or a pipe loop that drops down to the floor, or something like that? Somehow there has to be a steam stop there.



The problem this can create, is that now the radiators are the only way to vent air out of the steam mains and into the returns through the radiator traps. If there's an F&T trap connecting the main/return, then you'll get some venting there as well. But this tends to be inadequate for purposes of getting balanced heat. What you want to see happen is for the steam to have no resistance to flying down the steam main. You want this to be the attractive route. Once it gets to the end, closes the F&T trap/any vents, etc, then you want it to start working its way through the more resistive, but now best option, radiators. This is what gives the system balance, otherwise the radiators furthest from the boiler tend to get the least heat... it takes the path of least resistance, and by the time it warms the furthest radiators up, the thermostat has been satisfied in a closer room and the system shuts down.



The vents you have there (looks like 3 Gorton #1s) are to allow the air that is pushed out of the radiators into the returns to escape the system, or nothing would happen. Steam can't go where there is air. It looks like your system is currently relying on those to vent the mains as well, which is definitely not ideal.



How long is each main to its end, and what size pipe? What's at the end there to connect back to the return? Is there anywhere after the last radiator runout on each main that you could install venting? A plugged Tee or something?

JoshP

Pipes

First yes, two main steam lines that run the length of the house on each side. Each side has its own return line that connect together above the boiler near the 3 groton vents. those vents are the only vents in the system other than the vents on the second floor rads.



I don't see anywhere an f&t trap. Only thing is in the line is in the picture looks to be a check valve marked "Jenkins" see pics above.

There I guess is what you might call a loop. I will do a rough sketch of the pipes and post it later today. It's hard to see from the actual pics what the set up is.

Main steam line is 2" there arent any vents on the ends of the main lines. without trying to cut into the 90 year old main pipes I don't see any way of getting a vent in at the end of the main lines. I think that's probably what the rads have vents.

Longest main is about 50" to the third floor.

Again I will sketch out the pipping system so it's more clear.

Jamie Hall

Just for the record...

There's nothing wrong with a T piped with the inlet on the leg and flow out of both top arms -- or the inlet on one of the top arms and flow out the leg and the other top arm (although the head loss out the leg is greater than that out the opposite top arm -- but that usually isn't a concern).  What you don't want is flow coming in both arms and out the leg, unless the leg is a much bigger diameter.  Nor coming in an arm and the leg and out the other arm, unless the out arm is a much bigger diameter.



That said, however, in a header off a boiler the flow in the header absolutely must be one way.  That is the riser or risers from the boiler come first, then the Ts off to the steam main(s), then the equalizer/drip.  In that order.  Putting a main takeoff between two risers is a very poor idea.  Similarly putting a main takeoff on one end and the equalizer/drip on the other, with a riser in between, is a poor idea.



On another topic, if you do not have vents at the ends of the mains, you do need a way for air to get to the dry returns.  An F&T will do it, but if you are so fortunate as to have a wet return as well, a large radiator trap set up as a crossover trap will move a LOT more air than an F&T will (and it's less expensive and maintenance prone, as well), and you can take a drip down to the wet return for the condensate.  That is the setup that many vapour systems use.  Then your system venting will be at the ends of the dry returns -- usually at the boiler.  In my book, this is the preferred setup anyway, as that way the vents are where you can look at them from time to time, instead of being in the back of the beyond in some horrible crawl space.  Leaving the only widget in the back of the beyond the crossover trap -- and as long as they aren't hammered or overpressured, they tend to last pretty well (mine have been in there 80 years, and work just fine, thank you).

JoshP

Steam system

Here are my "crude" drawings of my system. Not sure if it helps at all. Let me know if you need any other information.

MTC

we still need to know

how your steam main connects to your return line. Or if it does... I guess you could theoretically have a counterflow main that doesn't use the return as a condensate drip, but this would seem very odd.



Go to the very end of your steam main. Take a picture of the end of the line, and how it attaches to the return, or showing that it doesn't. Try to get the return end in there too.



This is key to knowing what kind of venting your system has/needs.



Jamie, I know that a bullheaded tee works, but I've always read/been told that its very bad practice. That steam should only flow into one of the arms of a tee, other than in a header where the second riser from the boiler comes in the bull of the tee to join the first riser's steam. What you said about opposing flow directions joining in a tee is certainly the case, and probably worse than a bullheaded tee, but I've always been told that bullheading causes all sorts of problems.

JoshP

Steam mains

My steam mails run from the boiler. Each rad branches off from the main line. There really isn't an end. The left and right main just run the length of the house and each main ends with the last rad number 13 and 14 in my drawing. See if you can see that from the video i will attach.

JoshP

Main vents

Doesn't look like my video attached so here are some pics. Again the mains just end at the last rad numbers 13 and 14

MTC

put some markings on those pics please

I'm having a hard time figuring out what you're showing me.



a main can't "not end." It has to do something - it doesn't just disappear into thin air. Is it a 2" line that is just capped (this would be weird)? does the end of it just turn up with an elbow to last radiator (also weird)? does it connect to the return lines (probably)? How does it make this connection? Label your pics please, so we can see where the last risers to radiators are, what is a steam line and what is a return, etc.



Your steam mains almost certainly connect to your return lines at the very end, after rads 13 and 14. How this connection is made is very important to us knowing how to treat your system.



I have some guesses, but its better if you just tell us

JoshP

Main lines

Its hard to see in the pics. I must have I weird one because my two main steam lines end with the last radiators on each side of the house. Number 13 and 14 in my diagram. They do not loop back into the return and they are not capped off anywhere. The return lines are completely separate from the supply until you get back to the boiler. How's that for a brain teaser for you? My drawing at 13 and 14 is a little off. It makes it look like the steam lines continue past the rads. They don't. The main steam lines go into and end at those two last rads.

I can make a drawing of my pipes if you think that would help with more detail. Let me know if that will help.

MTC

Ok,

so does the steam line slope upward from the boiler all the way to the end? at the boiler, is the only connection between the supply and return lines through the header to the equalizer and down to connect with the return pipes?



This sounds like you have a 1 pipe counterflow system that was converted to 2 pipe later, but i could be off base.



Regardless, your venting at the end of the returns is good for getting the air out of the radiators through the steam traps on the radiators. They should not be venting the steam mains though, this leads to a very out of balance system. You need to find a way to get venting onto the end of the steam mains. This could be just extending the pipes a little further if necessary, to add a Tee to a vent, or you could take apart the end of the steam main and the return and connect them with a trap of some sort to let the air through but stop the steam from passing through. If it were me and you already have a counterflow main (seems odd, I'd think the piping would be bigger if this was the case, but who knows), then I'd just be looking to add vents at the end of the mains and leave the supply/return separate. The reason for the connection between them is usually in 2 pipe the steam main pitches down from the boiler and the return brings the condensate from the main back to the boiler. If you don't need to do that, there's no need to connect them. But the mains should be vented separate from the returns to achieve system balance and ability to run at lower pressures.

JoshP

Mains

Ok we are getting somewhere.....I think. The only pace the steam lines connect the the mains is at the boiler. See my drawing/ diagram of the boiler. There is what guess is a check valve there to keep the steam from running up the return lines.

All pipes are pitched to the boiler. Mains and returns.



As far as I can tell it doesn't look like anyone ever changed or added pipes since the house was built. Only thing I can tell is there was once a round coal boiler.



So I need to vent the ends of the mains somehow. I guess easier said than done on this old piping. Any way to vent with the valve on rad 13 and 14? Any other suggestions after seeing another rough drawing I've done of the pipe layout? ( I was bored at work today)



If you vent the mains what keeps them from just shooting steam out?

MTC

I still don't know how your steam/return mains end.

this is important to how to move forward. You said that they're not capped and that they don't connect to each other. Ok. But what DO they do? There is some sort of termination. Is it simply an elbow on the end of the mains up to last rads? Or is there a tee at the end with a plug in the end of it? Or a tee, then a pipe nipple with a cap on the end of the nipple? The pipe has to terminate in SOME fashion. How it does this will change how you vent the mains.



Vents have a thermostatic element or a bimetal element inside them. 2 different systems, but basically both are normally (at low temp) open, and when they heat, push a pin into the vent hole to seal it off, stopping all but the very first few vapors of steam from escaping.



I don't know specifically what that Jenkins thing is, but a backcheck valve seems a logical conclusion. It shouldn't really be there, I don't think, but it probably won't really hurt anything either. The wet portion of that return (anything below boiler water line) creates a P-trap in the return - this is what stops steam from backing up into the system.

JoshP

Mains

My mains end with the rads. 13 and 14. There is no capped end on either. The two mains run the length of each side of the house with the other rads coming off them. They end with those last two rads. They don't connect with each other anywhere. Just as I tried to show In my drawing.

MTC

So how do they end?

You don't seem to be listening. A main can't "just end." It can't "just go to the radiator," unless your radiator has a 2" inlet (which it doesn't) and the radiator's bottom is in your basement.



Show me a picture, or describe EXACTLY how they end. Does it have a Tee with a plug? Does it have an elbow from 2" to 3/4" or something? Does it have a reducer from 2" down to 1" or something and then an elbow? Does it have an elf that makes the steam magically jump from the main to the radiator?



This point is where we need to vent. If we don't know how it connects, we can't help you. Try to be more helpful in your description, I shouldn't have to ask 6 times to get basic information.

JoshP

Mains

Sorry. Yes the mains are reduced down to 3/4" before the last rads. It's a reducing elbow before rad 13and 14. Then they just go into the rads. I failed to note that, I was hung up in showing the pipe routing.

I was also wrong on the entire main size. Mains start at the boiler 2" then are reduced down to 1 1/2" half way. Then as I just said are reduced down to 3/4 and go into the last rads.

MTC

Now we're getting somewhere.

Ok, last important question. How close to the ceiling/floor above are you at the end of that main where it turns up to the radiator?



Where is that radiator in the house?



We can now try to find a fairly easy place/method to add venting, based on this information.

JoshP

Mains

Ok.

The rads that the mains end in are both on the first floor.

The pic attached is the west run where the elbow reduces to 3/4 and goes through the floor to that radiator. Its pretty mush the same on the east run.

There is little to no space between the main pipe and the floor. If that's what you are asking.

Dave in QCA

counter flow piping

With the addition of the last set of pictures, it sure looks like the steam piping is set up as counter flow.  That makes sense with Josh's description of the mains just ending with no drips.  It would be interesting to know what kind of system this was originally set up as...    I would guess that there are some bad traps.  Many will fail closed and then the rads hardly heat at all. 



Josh, my apologies if you have already answered this... but when the boiler runs for an extended period of time, do your return pipes get hot.  Do your Gorton vents on your return piping get hot and close?   If so, you have some bad traps that have failed open.  There should NEVER be steam in the return lines and the Gorton vents should never even get hot.   If your return piping does get heated up, try to traved back to where it is coming from.

MTC

Yeah,

that thing is jammed up there tight. That makes things more difficult.



Ideally, you want to get venting installed at/after the last riser off the main. This makes the path of least resistance for the steam at startup through the main, not through the early radiators and back to the vents at the end of the returns. Normally, we'd pipe them onto the main after the last riser and before it connected to the return, but your setup won't allow for that.



The next option would put the vents inside the living space of the house, which is why I asked where those radiators are. You could take that riser up to the last rad on each main, and split off of it and put a vent on that riser next to the valve for the radiator. This is likely the only way you can get good venting on your mains with your current setup.



The other option would be to take out that reducing elbow at the end of your main, put in a Tee, and run a connection between the end of the main and the end of the return, with a trap inline. You'd need one with a high flow rate, then the air in the main will blow through that trap, into the returns, and vent out at your current venting location. When steam hits the traps, they'll shut to keep steam out of return, and then your rads will start taking on steam, as the easy path has now been closed. This gives you steam to all rads at about the same time, and gives the system balance.

MTC

Dave is right,

but I'd clarify that the returns WILL get hot from condensate return through rads, but not as hot as the steam mains. Returns should get to about 165 degrees, while steam mains get to about 215 degrees.



It kinda looks like it was a converted 1 pipe counterflow, but the pipe size makes no sense for that, so think it was just built as a 2 pipe counterflow. Why you would do that? Who knows. Guess it eliminates the F&T traps or water seals between the mains, but you really should probably have larger piping if its handing counterflow condensate, even if it is only the main's condensate. Seems that it has no real benefit to me, unless piping height was a real concern. Parallel flow systems have downward pitch through the whole main, then from that point, downward again from there all the way back to boiler. On a dry return that you're trying to keep the pipes up out of the way, this could present a problem.

JoshP

Traps and returns

I will have to check the traps and returns to see how hot they are getting. I have a temperature gun that I can use to read the pipe and trap temp.

I pulled a trap off one rad and got about a half gallon of water out of the rad so I'm guessing that was stuck closed.

I will check the temps at various locations and post back. Thank you.

JoshP

Vents

So is there a set up I can put together that I could remove my shut off valves a those last two rads and add a vent and shut off with doing major pipe modifications or removal?

I've already replaced some pipe at the boiler and it wasn't easy being 90 year old system.

At this point I'm not sure I'd want to try removing that reducing elbow. Maybe only as last resort.

Dave in QCA

Focus on what's broken

Well, it sound like you found a bad trap in the failed closed position.  You may find serveral like that.  What type of traps do you have?  Many times it is much easier and cheaper to replaice the guts of the trap rather than the whole trap.



Regarding venting the mains.  While MTC is 100% correct regarding main vents, if it were me, I would wait on the main vents until I had the rest of the system corrected.  There were several of the early vapor systems that had no main vents or crossover traps at all.  They seemed to work fine.  So, with that in mind, your system may work just fine if you get everything else working the way its supposed to.

Jamie Hall

Well, not quite 100%

correct.  There are some vapour systems -- such as my Hoffman equipped -- which will not work properly if there are vents at the ends of the mains.  I think several of the other vapour systems are in the same position.

JoshP

Vents

The thermo vents are Hoffman 8c vents. I have no idea how old they are or if ever replaced.

Any suggestions on replacing the guts? How to articles or tips? I found the replacement kits on pexsupply for $40 ish. They have the whole vent for $72. They don't look like they are brass though. Mine are brass.

Dave in QCA

99.99999999% ?

Kidding with the 99.9999999% Jamie.  Actually, as a person that pulled off all of his Gorton #2s and installed crossover traps, you KNOW I agree with you Jamie.  However, I was just giving deference to those that are used to having vents, LOTS of vents, on their steam mains.  The main message I was trying to deliver was that it's probably best to fix bad traps first.  At that point, I suspect he'll find out his system works perfectly.

Dave in QCA

Hoffman 8C Parts on Ebay

I see there are currently original parts for Hoffman 8c on Ebay.  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hoffman-Specialty-A1198-8C-Service-Package-for-trap-8C-/230588719248?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35b028a090 

Search farther, there may be more.

Jamie Hall

We are entirely on the same page!

Your message -- phrased better than mine! -- and mine are the same: fix any bad traps (as your second message notes, it's not hard to get the parts and in most cases it's easy to do the job)(I have one trap -- thankfully working -- which is ingeniously plumbed so that you couldn't get the cover off without taking apart a whole bunch of other pipes...) and anything else like that, and then see where you've gotten to.

JoshP

Traps

Great. Thanks. I will scrounge around ebay more. I found an 8C trap new for $34 too. Would a bad trap cause the gushing sound in the risers to the ads?

Also should I remove the rad vents someone installed on the rads as I fix the traps?

MTC

Yes, I agree with these guys

that the most important thing will be to replace the failed trap elements. I just did a whole building of 17C and 8C Hoffmans with barnes and jones replacements. They're much higher flow rate than the originals, which can be both good and bad. Its good for keeping your system from overpressurizing too quickly, but can also make those close radiators so much more attractive to steam, causing them to overheat while the far ones underheat. This is why I like to see main venting, helps to prevent this unbalance.



I'm curious to know more about these vapor systems that won't function correctly with main venting. How is it that venting screws them up?



Call around to your local suppliers. I've often found that one of my local suppliers is cheaper than Pex Supply. But it can be all over the board.



The most important thing for changing traps, IMO, is to get yourself an impact gun, and the exact fit socket for the lid. The Hoffmans are a standard (not metric) size, but can't remember offhand what size. Get a 6 point if you can find it, rather than the 12 point, for better grip. Harbor Freight has an impact gun for under $40, which should serve you just fine for this kind of use.



I'd change all of them. Rather than testing them, if some have gone bad, the rest are likely to follow before too long. They've taken even more of a beating probably, as the returns are now beating them up from the backside at the same time.



Changing them is pretty easy, you pop the lid, unscrew the element (will probably have a similar smaller fitting on the top which you can just unscrew with a ratchet), put in a new one (may screw in like old one, may just sit in there with a spring to hold it in place), teflon tape the lid, and put it back on with a few hits from the impact gun. Don't go crazy here, you just need to snug it up. Then turn on the system and go around listening at each trap. If any are leaking, you'll hear the steam/air hissing out, tighten them up a bit more.



And yes, remove the vents. You'll need to get 1/8" NPT iron plugs to replace them, wrapped in teflon tape again.

MTC

Did that rad happen to have a vent on it?

typically a rad that fills up with a lot of water due to a failed closed trap will do so b/c the vent still allows more and more steam into the radiator to condense, but it has no way to get out. This is one of the reasons you should not have a vent on a 2 pipe rad (most of the time, there are exceptions).



It can happen that you get a decent buildup of condensate w/o a vent, but I'm not quite sure how it happens. Def get that much worse with the vents.