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Warmboard vs. HeatPly Radiant Heat

We're building a 1200 sq. foot art studio and want radiant heat.  One manufacturer, Warmboard, uses aluminum as part of their design, whereas HeatPly, the other manufacturer, does not but has more tubing spaced more closely.  We're wondering if anyone has an opinion about the pros and cons of these two products.

Thanks in advance.

Jerry

Comments

  • GordyGordy Posts: 9,247Member
    That's why

    Warm boards tubing centers are 12" because of the aluminum it spreads the heat evenly.



    So when comparing figure the extra cost of tubing and transfer plates to compare apples to apples, and the labor to lay it if you are not doing it yourself.



    Never heard anyone complain about warm board.
  • GordyGordy Posts: 9,247Member
    edited February 2013
  • jonny88jonny88 Posts: 1,139Member
    Gordy

    that is some pretty neat carpentry skills.any idea how long it took and what tools were used.very impressive
  • GordyGordy Posts: 9,247Member
    tools and Time

    Lets see Jig saw, circular saw, cordless impact.  About 16 man hours for about 320 sf.  8" oc no plates floor warming only. Ceiling radiant dominant emitter in the kitchen.
  • JerrySJerryS Posts: 3Member
    Is an aluminum based radiant heat system signifcantly more energy efficient?

    Thanks. Would the aluminum make the radiant heat system more energy efficient over a system that does not have aluminum?  That is, in a relative small space of 1200 sq. ft.would aluminum allow the system shut down more quickly because it heats up a room faster and could you keep the water temperature lower? The cost difference is significant between ones with aluminum and ones without.
  • GordyGordy Posts: 9,247Member
    Plates.

    Aluminum plates, or sheeted panels will make the emitter more efficient by allowing a lower supply temp, and a faster response time.



    So to answer your question yes.



    You need to do,a,room by room heat loss first though. This will dictate several factors.



    1. The load of the house as a whole.

    2. The load of each room.

    3. Supply temps, and flow rate for the loops feeding each room, or zone.

    4. Whether radiant is feasable for the load on its own, or if supplemental heat is required.

    Control strategy for it all. This means zoning if desired.

    5. Size of boiler to meet these loads. Mod/con being the most efficient choice.



    Side note is floor coverings to consider for floor radiant.



    Low r padding with low r- value carpet.

    Wood floors, which ones welcome installation over radiant which I think is hog wash with a properly controlled low temp situation.
  • pipekingpipeking Posts: 252Member
    gordy

    i'm not knockin it but, y copper tubing?
  • GordyGordy Posts: 9,247Member
    Ahhh

    Knew that was commin.



    My house is built in the early 50's all ceiling, and floor radiant. copper of course. i did this before the price of copper went into orbit, and to keep the house in the era. Plus I like copper it's heat transfer properties are much better than pex.



    I did not due plates because the kitchen already has ceiling radiant which can handle the load on its own. But with tiled floors thought floor warming is a nice touch..... My wife thinks so.
  • pipekingpipeking Posts: 252Member
    bofore copper went imto orbit?

    when, so u bought the copper 20yrs ago!
  • GordyGordy Posts: 9,247Member
    Pipe king

    7 years ago. It may have been expensive then, but it jumped considerably since that time.
  • GordyGordy Posts: 9,247Member
    PS

    This house has 5000' of copper tubing and pipe. If the house ever burns down "joking" I got a savings plan in place.
  • keyotekeyote Posts: 659Member
    i did something similar

    I just had home depot rip my plywood into
  • keyotekeyote Posts: 659Member
    i did something similar

    I just had home depot rip my plywood into
  • copperkidcopperkid Posts: 22Member
    Gordy, just Looking at your floor warming copper detail again. NICE!!!

    Hey Gordy now that my addition is wrapping up I plan on routering my floor similiar to yours.  Did you put wonderboard or durock over the tubing and if so was there any kind of barrier between the copper and cement board.  I always use thinset when I use the board.  Would I need to go to 6"centers if this will be used for heating ?Thanks
  • WarmzoneWarmzone Posts: 1Member
    We have been installing HeatPly for years and here's why... We are one of the largest Radiant floor heating company in the Bay Area been in business for over 35 years.

    After gathering our fair share of complaints using Warmborad we started researching new products. HeatPly had what we were looking for.

    Not only half the price but they also offer free design layouts. There is no need for a router and burning up expensive router bits cutting though aluminum. And the tubing stays in the grooves without silicone or special type of Pex tubing.

    Also the hardwood floor guys love it. They can glue directly to wood not a thin piece aluminum. Instead HeatPly uses more tubing at closer spacing to spread the heat evenly without the need for aluminum.

    We bid our radiant heat projects with HeatPly and get the job everytime! Our customers are happy with the price and the comfort.
  • STEVEusaPASTEVEusaPA Posts: 2,710Member
    edited September 2017
    @Warmzone You came here for your first post to brag about HeatPly?....hmmmmm interesting...
    steve
  • ZmanZman Posts: 4,688Member
    Warmzone said:

    We have been installing HeatPly for years and here's why... We are one of the largest Radiant floor heating company in the Bay Area been in business for over 35 years.



    After gathering our fair share of complaints using Warmborad we started researching new products. HeatPly had what we were looking for.



    Not only half the price but they also offer free design layouts. There is no need for a router and burning up expensive router bits cutting though aluminum. And the tubing stays in the grooves without silicone or special type of Pex tubing.



    Also the hardwood floor guys love it. They can glue directly to wood not a thin piece aluminum. Instead HeatPly uses more tubing at closer spacing to spread the heat evenly without the need for aluminum.



    We bid our radiant heat projects with HeatPly and get the job everytime! Our customers are happy with the price and the comfort.

    With any "plateless" installation, careful attention needs to be paid to the the loss calcs. They just don't produce as many BTU's/ft.
    You also need to run higher water temps than other installations lowering efficiencies in condensing boiler applications.
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
    Albert Einstein
  • GordyGordy Posts: 9,247Member
    Depending on project size, and btu requirements. The trade off is more tubing, and,more, or larger manifolds since you have just doubled the amount of tubing in the radiant floor detail. Plus the labor to install the extra tubing, and manifolds.
  • GordyGordy Posts: 9,247Member
    I will also add that stripping can still be a concern at 6" centers with no transfer plates. The wood flooring guys would just love the higher water temps as pointed out also.

    However i see your in the Bay Area. Not the most severe heating based climate.
  • KC_JonesKC_Jones Posts: 4,053Member
    I am starting to feel that many comments in this board should be prefaced with, "in my climate...". In a milder climate many thing may work that wouldn't come close in say the north eastern US.
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
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  • JohnNYJohnNY Posts: 2,190Member
    Warmzone said:


    We bid our radiant heat projects with HeatPly and get the job everytime! Our customers are happy with the price and the comfort.

    100% sales rate. Yeah, no.

    Shill posts are a great way to turn people away from your product.

    For installations, troubleshooting, and private consulting services, find John "JohnNY" Cataneo here at :
    "72°F Mechanical, LLC"
    Or email John at [email protected]
    John is a professional Master Plumber, licensed by The Department of Buildings of The City of New York, and works extensively in NYC while consulting for clients in and out of state.
  • s1barness1barnes Posts: 1Member
    I have yet to find anyone in my area that liked Warmboard after using it. The benefit of aluminum is not worth the cost.
  • hot_rodhot_rod Posts: 11,135Member
    Years ago I tested some of the most common tube installation methods. I build some test panels in the shop and took some Ir pics. No question that the aluminum transfers the heat across the surface evenly even with WB 12" spacing.

    Note where I router the board and how the transfer stops at the break in the aluminum.

    The tube suspended below the floor an inch or so, not so good.

    The stapled up Onix rubber, not much better, except for the staples :)

    ThermoFin and WB much better.

    All supplied with same flow rate and SWT.

    Withe enough temperature, really any one of these will give you about the same BTU/ sq. ft. as long as the floor surface temperature is adequate.

    The better conductor system, anything with metal transfer surfaces, will respond quicker and give you output at lower SWT.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    The magic is in hydronics, and hydronics is in me
  • GordyGordy Posts: 9,247Member
    You also have to remember when installing WB you are killing two birds with one stone in new construction. I think some people forget to subtract that cost of doing a sub deck either way.
  • TAGTAG Posts: 94Member
    I'm no expert -- Have only used Warmboard a few times. Four times actually using the subfloor product. I'm using it on my current project as well.

    Good results ... crazy solid feeing floor.

    It's expensive and requires planning and care with install -- my guess this is where people don't like.
  • Steve MinnichSteve Minnich Posts: 2,250Member
    WarmBoard and any ThermoFin product used above the floor would be my first two choices, although I haven't tried every product available. Roth panels performed really well too.

    ThermoFin would be my choice for walls and ceilings too.

    I miss radiant heating. My new job gets me in a ton of boiler rooms but have yet to see a radiant system.
    Steve Minnich
    "The wages of carelessness is failure."
  • hot_rodhot_rod Posts: 11,135Member
    similar to buying a new vehicle, there are so many good radiant installation products. I suppose they all have pros and cons.

    I suggest energy conservation should always be part of the decision, so lowest possible SWT should enter the calculations process.

    In moderate climates the less power transfer products may be adequate, crunch numbers with non-biased information when possible.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    The magic is in hydronics, and hydronics is in me
  • TAGTAG Posts: 94Member
    The comment from Warmzone was back in 2017 -- S1Barnes has only one post .. seems it's a cost problem.

    I guess I'm confused as why someone would make a negative comment and not explain what it is they don't like .... it's not helpful.
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