Munchkin with no p/s lines installed

VicMA

Hello,

I have a Munchkin boiler 140M R2 and a SuperStore Ultra SSU-45 heating a 1395 sq ft house with approximately 70 ft of base board for the 1st floor. No heat on the 2nd floor but would like to have this upgraded at some point, will require about an additional 70 ft of baseboard. Bought a home in 2011. The above mentioned units were already installed at the house. Prior to me buying the house someone broke in and and took the cooper piping to the boiler, hot water tank and anything else from the basement. The financial institution I bought the house from hired a plumber to come in to repipe everything. My first winter in the house I had problems with my Munchkin, kept getting the F05 error code. I called Honeywell to see if the thermostate was causing this problem. Also after resetting the unit it seemed to be fine. Until this winter. My boiler has completely stopped working. After calling a plumber in I found out that the plumber that did the work after the break-in did not pipe the primary and secondary lines as required. He tried to let me he did't have the drawing. I let him know that when I moved into the house they were sitting on top of the hot water heater. This past Thursday the insurance company came out to look at the situation. They looked at the boiler but they were more concerned about the hot water tank. They said there was no pressure lease valve installed an and that my son and I were in danger so we had to leave our house. When the reports came back they said they would cover the cost of the hot water tank because it was showing signs of failure but they wouldn't cover the boiler because it was too big for my house and that is why it stopped working. I contacted a reputable plumber and htp products. The plumber said the hot water tank and the boiler were the correct size. It would make my unit run less efficiently but it would not cause it to fail. HtProducts said that incorrect piping would lead to premature failure of the unit. So now I'm faced with trying to have htproducts come out to investigate and refute their report on my boiler. I'm wondering what other qualified plumbers out there have to say about the incorrect piping and the failure of my boiler and hot water tank.

RobG

Pictures

Could you post some pictures of the boiler, water heater and associated piping?

rob

VicMA

Munchkin with no p/s lines installed

Attached are some pictures I took with my phone. I have more pics but I can't download them yet.

Zman

Munchkin

The water heater without a relief valve is a serious knucklehead move. The rest of the system should be carefully looked over.

The boiler is oversized for the home. I don't believe that is what is causing the f05. It would make sense that the incorrect piping is causing the f05 and once it is corrected the boiler should work fine. I would suggest getting pro out to repipe it just like the manual says. I would have them do a complete clean and combustion analysis as well. If they balk at the combustion analysis, politely show them the door.

Carl

VicMA

munchkin with no p/s lines installed

Thanks Carl! It would be a huge cost saver if it just needed cleaning...and who knows after all is said and done I might have a hot tub installed as well to make good use of my munchkin! One other thing I noticed when I tried to start it the last time before I had to leave my house was, after starting it. It took about a minute for the f05 code to come up then the f05 code went off and then the temp read about 123 but there was no heat or hot water even though the boiler was running. The HVAC guy I had at my  house was concerned that the heat exhanger was warpped.

Zman

Frozen?

My experience has been that the vast majority of foreclosures are never properly winterized. What you are describing sounds like  the exchanger may have frozen. Does it look like the coils are bulging? I am thinking if it overheated the flue would be damaged. Post some good pics of the exchanger.

Carl

VicMA

munchkin with no p/s lines installed

I bought the house in 2011. About a month before I bought the house the copper pipes were stolen so the bank had to replace the pipes. The boiler worked relatively well when I had moved in (I didn't think I needed to worry about anything since everything should have been correctly installed by the plumber that had just done the work). This winter, however, was a different story. When MA had the cold spell it stopped working. I kept getting the F05 code when trying to restart and finally the F05 didn't even come on. It would run but the water and heat would not come on. I didn't want any one to work on it until everything was inspected by the town and by the insurance company.

I'll gave to take some. Is the heat exchanger visible by just taking off the cover?

Zman

Inspect

The best way would be to pull the cover and the burner. The burner is not a DYI job. I was assuming he saw deformation when he pulled the cover off. The exchangerlooks like 5 gallon bucket on its side. The burner is mounted the lid.

http://www.htproducts.com/literature/parts/MunchkinBoilerResidential%28Rev1%29.pdf



Carl

icesailor

Insurance "Experts".

Actually, with a Munchkin and a SuperStore, you are supposed to connect the SuperStor in a primary loop and the rest of the house on the secondary side. A Vision Po control makes it run with the water tank getting the high limit boiler water on priority and the system getting the ODR water. It sounds like the boiler just isn't igniting. If it worked before, it needs service now by someone that knows Munchkins.

Do you live in Massachusetts? No Massachusetts Plumber connected that water tank in the way you describe, and no permit was taken out for the work. It looks like it was done by a Hackaroo of the lowest caliber. There is an expression I heard. Plumbers make good heaters (mostly) but heaters don't make good plumbers mostly). Plumbers and Heaters excepted (mostly) The person who piped that is neither.

If you are in Massachusetts, I would be asking the AHJ/Code Enforcement officials what's up?

As far as that relief valve issue, It needs a Pressure Relief Valve. It is open to interpretation as to the Temperature part of the valve. It is an indirect heater tank. It still should have the TPR valve. Inspectors require it and it goes into the hot supply at the top of the tank. You must use a brass IPS tee with a TPR with a long insertion element to get into the top of the tank. The tanks used to come with them. It was taken by the drug needing thieves. The Hackaroo's that re-connected it didn't know better.

IMO, if the thieves cut the copper out before the house could have frozen up, when they cut the copper off at the boiler, the water would have run out and there wouldn't be any water in the HX. More likely, it needs the services of a Munchkin Pro who knows that it may need "The old credit card trick between the sections" of a Giannoni heat exchanger

Call a competent professional.