One riser or two risers

NY_Hammer

My old steam boiler was replaced with New Yorker CGS-A 80 boiler by NYC Rapid Repairs team due to Sandy's damage.



All looks good except that they use only one riser is being used, the other one (boiler has two I guess) is capped.



The old boiler had only one steam main supply and therefore only one riser.



Is current configuration ok or I should insist on them to use both risers?



Near boiler diagram for this boiler has two risers.

What is better?







Thanks

Jamie Hall

The manual

for that boiler shows that for the -80 the second supply is not optional (it is for the -60 and -70).  Therefore... it should have been used.  Check the piping diagram on page 7 of the manual.



The manufacturer's recommendations are always a minimum.

Rod

You need Two Boiler Risers

Hi - I was just going to post a reply but since Jamie has already given you a good answer all I can add is a link to the Installation manual.

http://www.newyorkerboiler.com/pdf/CGS-A%20I&0%201-10.pdf

and as Jamie mentioned these re the minimums rather than the optimums. On the 80 a second riser is required and having a second riser cuts the exit velocity of the steam in half which allows more water to settle out of the steam.

-Rod

NY_Hammer

tough choice now ...

Thanks for your replies.

This is what my thoughts were exactly.

The problem is that it's hard to trace and complain about this job because it was done for free. I meant it was paid by the City of New York at no cost to the owner, me.



And system in general works even better now then with the old boiler.

So I have a choice now either try to find who is responsible for this job and try to make them to redo it, or pay for the re piping out of my own pocket.





Or just leave it the way it is ...

NY_Hammer

Additional info

Just wanted to upload the pictures of the new system.

All looks fine to me except the second riser and no insulation.

ALIGA

the blue handled valve

does not look like in an optimal position.

ChrisJ

Don't think

There is anything wrong with the blue handled valve, it will work fine there.

However I don't like how low the header is and the fact the second riser was not used is totally unacceptable.  I also would have went with a 3" header rather than a tiny 2" header.  Didn't look in the manual but wouldn't be surprised if it even calls for a 3" minimum.



And maybe I'm wrong, but it looks like they put a water hammer arrestor on the wrong side of the autofeeder.  That one I find interesting as I don't think the instructions mention anything about this so they did it on their own and messed it up (maybe).

NY_Hammer

Manual calls for 3 inches HEADER

On what side of the feeder water hammer arrestor should be?



Thanks

ChrisJ

hammer arrestor

I'd feel better if a pro would comment but in my opinion if you're going to use a hammer arrestor I'd think it should be on the supply side of the feeder where its currently on the boiler side. Thats nitpicking though and kind of meaningless compared to the header size and height and missing riser situation.  Those are important and I'd insist on them fixing it.

SWEI

tough choice now

Your boiler installation does not meet the manufacturer's minimum standards.  If a problem develops, Burnham will not be on the hook for warranty coverage.



I'd make the call...

RobG

Venting

That venting looks awfully questionable to me. I looked at the install manual and all the info shows the vent damper being mounted on the draft hood. Some manufacturers require this as it gives the proper vertical rise for the flue before going horizontal. As well, that horizontal run is not supported and has an obvious dip. I would show the pics to New Yorker tech support an see what they have to say.

Rob

JohnNY

I'm an NYC Rapid Repairs Contractor...

...and I can tell you there are corrections being made, at no charge to the homeowner of course, for far less significant installation flaws than what you're showing here. Call the RRP update center and tell them the installation is not in compliance with the minimum pipe size requirements shown in the installation manual. They'll send an inspector to verify your claim and have it redone as soon as possible.

The contractor won't get paid for the job until it clears all inspections.

What borough are you in? I work with Conti on Staten Island.



By the way, as an RRP contractor, I appreciate the tone of your post. I understand these are trying times and many members of my family (including my mother) have been directly affected by the storm and are living with severe flood damage for months now, but there are people involved on the receiving end of the program that are absolutely unappreciative of anything they've been given and for anyone's efforts to help them out. Some of the people are downright abusive to the workers that show up to their homes.

You're clearly not one of those people.



Good luck to you.

Hap_Hazzard

Don't use an arrestor on a water feeder.

If that thing ever goes off, you want people to hear it! Under normal circumstances it should never be activated. If it is, you have a leak somewhere, and you need to find it and fix it. If you are letting your water feeder maintain the water level, it is going to fluctuate at least 4", and a fluctuating water level is the kiss of death to a steam boiler.



Maintaining the water level is your job. The water feeder is not a labor-saving device. It's just there to keep you from losing heat if a leak develops and causes a low-water shutoff, and if that ever happens, you need to know about it as soon as possible.

NY_Hammer

I am in Brooklyn

I will try to find the way to contact them. I already did, but they misunderstood me and sent electrician instead of plumber.

I wasn't home and my wife could not tell him what's is wrong.



Will try again.



Thanks for help.



  

NY_Hammer

It becoming ridiculous ...

Spoke with Rapid repairs supervisor  multiple times and guess what his subcontractor plumber telling him?



According to this plumber the piping done to the NYC code which supersedes manufacturer specifications!!!

Which is total BS, on the first page of the boiler installation manual it says

"The New York City Department of buildings has approved the Classic CGS-A Series boiler: Approvel No. MEA 165-94-E"



He just doesn't want to redo the piping.



I will have to take escalate it to the general constructor who is contracted by the NYC to do this ...





Any advices/opinions ?







Thanks



 

ALIGA

sounds like the old run around

maybe gateway can help since they are a rapid repair contractor.



good luck

JohnNY

The NYC Code is...

....it has to be installed as per manufacturer's installation specification's minimums at least.

Keep calling. If the sub wants to get paid, they'll have to deal with you one way or another and they can't close the job with your unresolved complaint on file.

NY_Hammer

What is the hierarchy in Rapid repairs system?

I keep talking to so called supervisor who telling me BS

about NYC code that plumber feeding him.





 





I also called somebody who did the inspection after initial

installation.





Don’t know who he is. I also have couple numbers for the

general constructor DSW Homes, but I always end up with the same guy, the supervisor.





 





 





Basically who do I call next?



In addition to the piping just nor being done right, I got very strong water water hammer in some rads, in the middle/end of the heating cycle I believe due to the wrong piping/wet steam. Never had it before.











 



 

NY_Hammer

new problem developed

now the system short cycling  not on presuuretroll but on .... low water cut off ...

could that be for the same reason like wrong near boiler piping?



Or clogged return lines?





the system is one pipe ,,,

Bio

Short cycling

It's very possible you need a lot more skimming done, take a picture of your sight glass

NY_Hammer

it's dirty even I just cleaned it

And I can't find the skimming port on this boiler. Not even sure it was skimmed after the installation.



Here is the picture