to convert cast iron to steamview in prewar condo NYC

madel

Hi,



I'd be so grateful for some advice. We are doing a gut reno of a prewar condo in NYC. It's a steam system and we are faced with the choice of building or buying new radiator covers for all of the cast iron radiators or potentially switching to a design like steamview (<a href="http://www.steamradiators.com/">http://www.steamradiators.com</a>) to save space and hopefully some money on the radiator covers.



Does anyone have any experience doing this and should we anticipate any problems?



Is there any reason we should not go ahead and do this?



As with most buildings of this kind in NYC, we don't have an individual thermostat in the apt - the temperature is controlled centrally for all units. Does that have a bearing on whether we should make the switch?



Thanks for your advice!

Steamhead

Why don't you

get the radiators sandblasted and repainted? They'll look real sharp- then you won't need covers, which can really reduce a radiator's output. 

STEAM DOCTOR

btu output

Make sure that the btu output of new radiators is equal to old radiators. Please do not try to guess. The consequentces could be dire

madel

BTU?

Hi,



Thanks for the feedback. I am not crazy about the look of the old ones uncovered but more importantly, they take up an awful lot of space.



How does one determine the BTU output of the old radiators? The steamview ones have the specs online.



Thanks again!

Dave in QCA

Look Better Uncovered IMHO

Here are a few images of radiators that are cleaned up and painted.  Didn't sandblast them, just scraped and wire brushed, the painted with rustoleum metalic paint.



You need to be forwarned that the steel radiators that you are thinking about using will behave very differently than cast iron.  The BTU will be less and once the steam has shut off the steel radiators will cool down VERY quickly.  An advantage of cast iron is the way they continue to emit heat for an extended period of time.  This will most likely result in your boiler being missmatched to your system and will cost a lot in fuel economy.

Sil

Nice job refnishing.

Nice job refnishing. 



I had mine sand blasted and painted by a metal refinishing place (the place does work for museums) they did not powder coat.  While they looked great when new, a few years later some are peeling. 



I learned my lesson... powder coat next time.



While they do take up alot of space, I find the look of old rads elegant and timeless.

Hap_Hazzard

Radiators are usually rated in EDR (equivalent direct radiation)

But you can convert that to BTUH if you want to. First you need to identify the radiator, as accurately as possible, measure the height, multiply the number of tubes or columns by the number of sections, and look up the ratings.



Dan has a book for sale that has ratings for every radiator ever made, except one, and pictures for identification. You can order a copy from the "shop" link, above, or post some pictures and we'll see what we can do.



I can tell you without looking that the steamview radiators are way less efficient than any cast iron radiator. If you think they take up a lot of space, wait until you see how many of the steamview radiators you'd have to install to replace them.



They do look nice though.

ChrisJ

Dave

I love that short fat one you posted.  Maybe because it resembles me, I don't know.



But what is that evil looking rectangle in the floor by it!?!? 

Dave in QCA

Don't fear the Air Register!

It is only for the A/C.  It works quite nicely.

madel

Ok I'll have to go back and take a look

Ok I'll have to go back and take a look and some photos to see what brand/model they are.



As for painting them to leave them bare, my architect said we shouldn't paint them white as rust will show through after a while. Is that true? Are there any work arounds for this? If I painted them to leave them bare, I'm pretty sure I'd want them white....



thanks!

ChrisJ

Rust?

If you sand them down, prime them and paint them white why would there be any rust on the exterior of the radiator? Paint protects the iron and keeps it from rusting. No?

jumper

you won't be sorry

You won't be sorry with those steel units.

ChrisJ

Question

In regards to those steel radiators, they say they have a 1" tapping. Is this near large enough for a 8-10,000btu radiator on a single pipe system?



I would think 10,000btus would need 1 1/4" for sure on one pipe.

SWEI

Rust?

If they want to be absolutely certain, send them out to be professionally prepped and powdercoated.  They will look beautiful for decades.

Hap_Hazzard

Rust-proof White

The best finish in any color is a powdercoat finish. It provides a very attractive, uniform finish, and it is very tough. The next best thing, if you can't afford powdercoating, is Rust-Oleum High Heat. It's available in black, white, silver, and my personal favorite, almond, which is a nice, off-white color. Except for the black, it's only available in aerosol cans, and holding down the spray button long enough to put a coat of paint on a radiator is about all my finger can stand, but with enough patience you can get a decent result. I don't recommend using housepaint on radiators. Most of them aren't intended for temperatures over 200°, and they eventually crack and peel.



While I agree that painted radiators are more attractive, a bare cast iron radiator shouldn't rust unless you pour water on it. Under normal conditions, a dark gray passivation layer will form on the surface which will protect it from further oxidation unless it's scraped away.

Hap_Hazzard

Answer

I can't remember where I found this, but if anybody has some more reliable figures, please correct me.



≤ 24 ft.² EDR (6400 BTUh): 1"

24 – 60 ft.² EDR: 1¼"

> 60 ft.² EDR (16000 BTUh): 1½"



So, yes. 10,000 BTUh falls right in that 1¼" range.

Dave in QCA

a White one

Here is a white one, painted with Rustoleum spray paint.

pipeking

SIL

 thats is to bad they r peeling, that only means that they were not prepaired right. i've been sandblasting and painting them (with rustoleum, i mix) and have never had a problem. i've only painted my first 1 about 13 yrs. ago but my mentor  has been doing it much longer (with rattle can) and swears by it.

Hap_Hazzard

I've gotten similar results,

but only at the expense of torturing my index finger. Is that the high heat or the regular Rust-Oleum?

madel

sandblasting, rustproofing, powder coating etc

WIll our GC be up to this task or should we only trust a specialist to handle it. Seems like quite an ordeal to have them taken elsewhere to be refinished but I would do it if you think that's necessary.



Any good recommendations for NYC, particularly Manhattan?

Christian Garibaldi

I'll take

your old radiators if you are getting rid of them. lol, Dont toss them, Id think esp in a prewar bldg, iron would look more fitting. those steel ones have no style IMHO

Dave in QCA

sore finger

yes, it made for a tired finger.  Actually, I have a little trigger handle thing that snaps into the top of a spray can.  That worked great until they redesigned the tops of the cans.



I used standard Rustoleum, not the high heat stuff.  The photos I have show here are on a hot water system in my home.  I have also used the same paint with great results at the Best Mansion Apartments, which is a steam system. 

Christian Garibaldi

another option

why not polish them? It would be a tedious **** of a job , but it technically could be done on site. Its iron. strip them and polish the casting. Then wipe them with a light coat of oil periodically. Would look awesome. Then al youre spending $ on are abrasives and time. Just a thought. They would look like jewelry...esp if you have ornamentation on them



I used to polish iron engine blocks sometimes depending on the application back when i was a machinist