bad steam systems ?

jumper

In the seventies & eighties I was involved with some steam to hot water heating conversions in multi-residential buildings. In those days you could not justify those jobs by projected energy savings. The issues were operations and maintenance. For example, nobody after decades had records of which traps were fixed when. Clients had the notion that hot water is maintenance free?



My question is why building owners grudge spending on maintenance ? Everybody services his car once in a while.

steamychick

maintenance

Apparantly not everyone services their car once in awhile. Someone was wondering why they had smoke coming out of the exhaust, asked when was the last time they changed their oil?, response= and I qoute-"It came with oil!"

PMJ

A Few Observations/Comments

I will make a few comments about maintenance from an owner's perspective.

I think part of your answer is in a term used much on this site - knuckleheading. There is a lot of it out there so most owners have had some bad experiences. The money disappeared but things did not get fixed - or worse. Right, we chose the wrong guy and/or we shouldn't have paid. Not always so easy to get all that right. So, unpleasant things tend to get put off. Also, we all know that some annual maintenance visits are fishing expeditions at some outfits - especially when business is slow. I know, I know, all contractors are not like that but we all know some are. Owners get wary and end up just putting things off.



Having said that, there is nothing better than a relationship with a great contractor. And a relationship means many deals have been worked through together. The owner comes to know that his contractor knows what he is doing and that his price will be reasonable and the contractor knows he will get paid. Takes time to build through many experiences, but once established such a relationship is truly a beautiful thing.



Another point is that steam is generally considered "old" and therefore not much is expected of it. People buy a house with a house where the previous owner explains that some radiators are a little colder than others and the new owners unwittingly subscribe to the unfortunate notion that "old" means that it can't really do much better. Its sort of like the notion that is out there that slate roofs are old and high maintenance and should be replaced which tragically they are all the time. I wouldn't part with my slate roof any more than my steam heat but it is happening all around me all the time. I think people generally think that it would cost a fortune to do much with their steam system so they just adapt to what they've got.



Also, it does take some time and observation to figure out what is wrong. It is tough to go in and out of all the units to check what you want to as many times as you want to when they are all occupied. I have a friend who owns several one-pipe multiple unit apartments in Chicago and he complains that it is almost impossible to check what he wants to and he is reduced to doing what he can in the boiler room. At my house I can walk around checking every rad multiple times in all conditions whenever I want. I feel for you contractors and the pressure to perform with the meter running. Frankly, I can't picture a homeowner giving you the time you need to really tweak it right. If only they knew how much better it could be! I have come to really respect the skill it takes to walk into a system you've never seen before and see things quickly. You are better at it than I am. I don't have to be fast - I have all the time in the world to figure out what is happening (and I need it).

Finally, this site is really quite a resource for an owner. The ability to get a second opinion for free is really priceless. Hope this made some sense.

Gordo

All Too Many Landlords

just don't like to spend money, period.  From my prospective, they seem to regard good contractors as if they were the Red Cross - there to provide free service merely out of the goodness of their hearts.

It seems many small-time landlords that have been in business long use a "slave" i.e. someone who works for them who has low self-esteem they can get to do the minimum work needed for a rock-bottom price.  They call the contractor for the "free" estimate of the problem.  They get the problem diagnosed and then get their "slave" to do the work instead.

Even if the "slave" has to try and fix the problem three times., it's still cheaper than what that over-priced contractor was going to charge to fix it right the first time.

jumper

I've met guys like that

Like Gordo describes. When they don't utilize an unqualified employee they turn to a brother-in-law or an old classmate. But a heating system for a larger building should be considered a machine costing six figures$ at least. Somebody can know how to change a toilet, but not understand how that $100,000s machine works. So after the steam system gets mutilated, the heating medium is blamed. Then comes the conversion to supposedly foolproof hot water. It's almost always a compromised job to save dollars. And, of course, a hot water system also requires knowledgable attention.