Returns question

steamychick

New question- I have 14 rads. 12 of the returns go back to the boiler. The other 2  just go into the ground. They are the only 2 on the other side of the house. I can't seem to find where they go back into the boiler. Would they just drain into the ground? That seems odd.

BobC

Buried returns

They sound like buried returns, look around and see if you can find any pipes emerging from the cement.



Bob

steamychick

buried return

Sorry, jumped the gun on that one. I did just find where it pops back up out of the ground, it was kind of hidden. Seems the only reason for being buried a short distance was to skirt a doorway. Yet it shoots across the middle of the old coal bin opening/door before skirting this door. Strange. I would have thought it would all be buried at that point. I guess it's better for me that very little is buried. Is there a way to find out if that part is leaking other than digging up the floor? Maybe wishful thinking on my part...

Jamie Hall

Well... the obvious question is

do you have a suspicion of a leak in the system?  That is, are you using more water than you should be (which is very little)?  If so, and you can't find it anywhere else, it might be there.  The only way you could find out, though, would be to isolate that section of line -- which may not be possible -- and test it with air or water.



One does sometimes have to wonder why the pipes were put where they were...

steamychick

rounding up suspects

At this point, I'm suspicious of everything. Maybe it's paranoia from going through this whole cracked boiler mess. I don't know if I was using more water than "normal", as I may have had problems from the time I bought the house and didn't know it. Since everyone is a suspect, I'm thinking I should just dig it up and replace anyway. Then I will know and can cross that off the list of possible offenders. Someone on another thread mentioned using polypropylene pipe (Aquatherm/Climatherm). Does anyone have any experience/input on this? The noncorrosive properties are intriguing.

SWEI

test first

before you replace.  This can happen as part of your boiler replacement, and a reputable contractor should offer to do so.



I'm the one who suggested PP pipe as a buried condensate return.  Copper works just fine unless you have acidic soil or modern (fly ash) concrete.  Climatherm costs about 20% less than copper for materials, but it requires specialized tooling and training.  It has a 35-year track record worldwide but has only been available in the US for a few years -- and is not approved in all jurisdictions yet.

steamychick

pipes

Thanks for the info on PP pipes. Sounds like I will be using copper if it needs replaced. But why o why does the US take so long to get on board sometimes? (rhetorical question)

SWEI

getting on board

Means approvals from two national code bodies, requiring testing by specialized  (expensive) laboratories.  The test requirements typically date back decades, and were not designed with modern materials science in mind.  Then comes the hard part: persuading states (and in some cases counties and cities) to accept the product or system.  Unions and competing manufacturers who sit on code making bodies also get to weigh in.  As do fire marshals.  It's a multi-million dollar, multi-year proposition.

steamychick

complicated

I knew it would be complicated. Sigh. On the bright side,(if there is one), somewhat less superior(?) materials = more business for pros = more jobs

SWEI

it is complicated

Just look at the on-again off-again status of PEX for commercial construction in California if you want to see what can happen.



Aquatherm tooling represents enough of an investment that it is unlikely to become a preferred DIY material.  Given this and its predominantly commercial/industrial applicability here (thanks to the widespread use of PEX for smaller pipe sizes) it should not suffer that kind of fate.  It's a really wonderful system and I hope it goes far in our market.