Vacuum air vents on one-pipe systems

Eastman

Have you seen

Have you seen any system that implemented the possible solutions outlined in "Six Kinds of Steam Heat"?

SWEI

solution

Wouldn't a modulating gas burner be an even better solution?

jumper

don't need no stinking vents

Forgive me for repeating. On a one pipe system a vacuum generator anywhere will do. A water powered ejector can pull down to negative twelve psi in winter. If you have an air compressor an air powered ejector can suck even harder. At such low pressure the system will be filled with saturated steam even during off cycle.



Vacuum one pipe was never promoted because there's nothing to sell. No vents, no traps.

Eastman

That would be a big step in the right direction.

But who makes such a thing.  One of us needs to piece together a modulating power burner.  In all honesty, we should form a shell company to ask for sample parts from the major players, develop the operating parameters based on the combined experience from this board, then buy the parts in mass and distribute.

Eastman

Has anyone tried this?

Has anyone tried this?



Or, why hasn't anyone tried this?  (I thought this was done in commercial buildings.)  Are we back to the gasket issue?

Mark N

Hoffman #2

This is from the Library



http://www.heatinghelp.com/files/articles/1310/128.pdf

SWEI

they do exist

Powerflame X4M and Midco Low NOx have been discussed here, but they don't come in typical residential sizes and there are no off-the-shelf controls available.

Eastman

"no-off-the-shelf controls"

Right, as a minimum one would need to program a microcontroller board to handle the various aspects of flame control and integration, but these chips are cheap and readily available.  As a starting point, I suggest using spare parts from a giannoni style mod/con, substituting our own programmable controller.

SWEI

controls

Plenty of DDC manufacturers make suitable controllers, and Mark S here has been rolling his own http://steamheat.thestaytons.net/ http://www.heatinghelp.com/forum-thread/143517/A-Steam-Enthusiasts-Outdoor-Reset-Control

Ban

Library post

Thanks for the Library post. I am working on the valve right now. It is going to take me some time to finish it. I will post when I am done.

Eastman

how is it going Ban?

Have you made any progress?

Ban

Actually,

Yes! I was working on it yesterday. It is almost complete but the valve didn't work quiet right yet. I need to make a few modifications still. I will post a photo when I'm finished.

Ban

Gasket-Style Boilers and Vacuum

I spoke with technical support for Weil-Mclain. They said their boiler can absolutely run in a vacuumized system. So everybody that was worried about that can now relax.

Ban

Progress so far...

Attached below is the prototype of a new add-on to a standard Maid-o-Mist air vent which converts the valve to allow a vacuum to form! After the air has been bleed out of the radiator a check valve stops air from entering back into the system just as in the Hoffman, Heat thief sales ad. I used Jacobus vents because they are inexpensive, durable, easy to thread on to and can be fitted to balance a one-pipe system easily.



I have not fully tested the valve yet. I have to make a few design changes before it can be submitted to a real live steam situation. I understand some of you are a bit anxious for my results, as am I, unfortunately, at this moment time is hard to find and I have put this aside for longer than I would have liked.



Have a great day!



Richard

Bio

Wondering

Ban, Any updates? Any progress?

conversiontime

thanks for hoffman 2 document

Realize this is old thread but the hoffman 2 article/ad/promo from 1927 was great. My current abode was built in 1929 and have been here since 2010. The heat system is one pipe steam since day one but certainly original boiler was coal (old rakes still in basement). The dead men mains and runs to rads are original piping and probably the rads.



Anyhow last year when converting from oil to gas I read dans books and fixed many uneven heating issues myself like new venting, therm, etc while the pro converted the boiler. When I removed the old main vents (gorton 16) and likely original, I could not figure out why they were labeled vacuum as this seemed standard one pipe system. But the other night when cleaning some shelves in basement I was looking at two old vents that were removed by somebody, sometime in the past. Then realized they were hoffman 2 vacuum vents, found this thread  and the old hoffman 2 publication = it all made sense.



Hard to believe the old vacuum main vents apparently stayed in place from 1929 to fall 2012 when I removed them and replaced with gorton2. Untold amounts of heating oil must have been spent over the decades post coal convert to move that air and numerous rad vents blown over the years. These two gorton2 survived somehow as originally there would have been 10 total. The 16 gorton were really rusted in and took a almost 4 ft breaker to remove. Now realize they are all pretty cool pieces of history.