How much water do you use?

BobC

Fine for now

Chris,



I put an index card behind my gauge glass so i can see the light violet water easily and I add water every time the water falls 1/2" below the normal water line. There could be a tiny steam leak somewhere but I've had no luck finding it. If I see the usage climb then I'll think about tearing things apart.



I used to drain a little out of the boiler before filling to keep it clean but with the Steam Master there doesn't seem to be any need other than to check the PH from time to time. Then I bring the system up to steam, I want this boiler to outlast me.



Bob

ChrisJ

PH

Bob,

I've kind of wondered about the water treatment being effected by make up water.  I would assume if water is being lost in the form of steam, then the water treatment amount shouldn't be effected, no?



I haven't really added enough water to know for sure yet.  Last time I checked my PH was still a 9 so I was happy.

BobC

About the same

Chris,



My PH is about the same as yours and I don't think any loss of steam will affect that because the water you add will just bring the volume up where you were before. I don't think the concentration will change by a meaningful amount..



Bob

ctjomac

We are not using any water~!

We replaced ur boiler this past spring/summer/fall and since start up and flush out the Burnham MST 396 has worked flawlessy...we have manual feed only and I haven't once added any....my wife is SO happy

Hap_Hazzard

Got a picture?

Or you could go to pexsupply and compare yours to the ones they show.

ChrisJ

Ugh

Its a MM Uni-Match, but its a 120V version so its moot anyway.



Maybe I'll throw it up on the trade\sell section. I'm still looking for Gorton vents maybe someone will want to trade

Hap_Hazzard

Effect of water lost as steam

Water lost as steam or condensate, from leaky vents, valves, return or supply piping, is essentially distilled water. Any dissolved minerals that were in that water when it was added to the boiler remain behind, so the effect of continually adding make-up water will be a gradual increase in these solutes. You may not notice a change in the water composition, however, because most of the minerals precipitate out of solution, forming scale, when the water is heated.



The Steamaster tablets contain a chelating agent that helps prevent mineral precipitation. Chelating agents work by binding to metal ions to form complex, soluble molecules, thus preventing these ions from interacting with other chemicals in solution. Obviously they can only hold a finite number of ions, so, unless more is added as more minerals are introduced, minerals will begin precipitating again.

Maine Vent

Auto Feeder

My vxt just added 1 gallon, I drained off about 1/2 a gallon to bring the level back down to the line. I'm not worried about 1/2 gallon. Still looking for the Steamaster tablets.

ChrisJ

Steamaster

Looks like this place has them, not sure how to order though?

http://orders.sidharvey.com/product/R34/F2-9



This place also has them.

http://kscdirect.com/item/REC%2B68732/RECTORSEAL%2BCORPORATION_SEALMASTER%2BTAB%250A





I have not done business with either unfortunately.





The VXT added a half gallon over how long of a period though?

Are you going to tweak the fill settings to stop it from overfilling?

Maine Vent

Reply

Time was from start up, last October to now.



I don't think I can tweek the VXT, 1 gallon is the lowest amount you can set on it.

ChrisJ

Hmm

I thought on the VXT it could fill just until LWCO is satisfied or for X amount of seconds after to bring the water line up to normal?



I could be remembering wrong, I've never actually touched one only read the manual over a year ago.

Maine Vent

Hydrolevel

PROGRAMMABLE FEED AMOUNT SETTINGS: Six settings provide two

ways to feed: 1-5 gallon settings feed above the Low Water Cut-Off to

restore boiler’s normal operating level. Or, select LWCO setting to end the

feed cycle when the Low Water Cut-Off re-energizes the burner.



I'll have to find the first dipswitch setting.



Thanks for tip.

ChrisJ

Hmmm

Your LWCO triggers just below the NWL? Thats odd, mine is like a few inches below it.

Maine Vent

Reply

No it didn't trigger just below, it filled to just 1/4 in. above the fill line.

ChrisJ

Loss

So I'm bringing the old thread back to life being its the same subject.  I finally measured the amount I am loosing and it's around the following.



Very cold week, temperatures in single digits or below zero at times : 1/4 gallon  per week.  Seems like this weather doesn't last longer than a week in NJ.  Under these conditions almost all radiator vents close each cycle but I didn't see more than 2oz of pressure.

Typical cold weather here, lows in the high teens or low 20s gives me around 1/4 gallon every two weeks.  So my typical usage appears to be around 1/2 gallon per month in normal winter weather.



From what I can tell I have zero leaks.  Boiler held pressure fine with king valves and return valve shut.  All piping is exposed, all Gorton vents are working properly.  Though, I do swear when I was using all Hoffman 1A vents I used a lot less water.  Maybe I'm wrong, either way I had endless headaches with those vents.  I have to assume 1/2 gallon per month is just how my system behaves.  My initial post was when I had Hoffman 1A vents and we were having a very mild winter from what I recall.



Is this bad? Good? typical?  Moot?

BobC

Drain every other year?

Maybe it would be best to drain and flush the boiler every couple of years to get rid of any buildup. I could do it in October on a cool morning and then bring the system up to steam (having added a single steam master tablet) to drive off any oxygen in the water.



I do like the fact the boiler drain water looks as clean as the water out of the skim port.



Bob

ChrisJ

Rinsing

Bobc,



I waited until I had been using the boiler for a month or so this season and then did a drain and washed with the wand. I got a fair amount of rusty nasty stuff from the rear section where my return is but practically nothing from the other 3 sections. After that I filled slowly , let it skim for a while, drained the excess then tossed in 2 tablets and let it steam for a good 20 minutes after that.



I think its a good idea to clean the boiler once a year to get any crap that flows down out of the piping and radiators as well as any minerals etc from makeup water out.

conversiontime

maybe 1-2 pints /month during peak months D,J,F

Which includes typical temp swings of -20F to 50F on nine hoffman 1as and three gorton vents at rads. I have never observed the auto feeder/lwco kick on unless testing lwco during monthly blowdown so I add via auto feeder override button. During other heat months the loss appears minimal so generally do not add any.

ChrisJ

Vents

What kind of main venting are you using and what size is the boiler / system?

conversiontime

one gorton 2 on each main

The boiler is hungry one, approx 200btu in, 165btu gross. During the -20 spell she roared like rutting moose.

ChrisJ

Interesting

See that's what kind of bothers me. When I had Hoffman 1As on every radiator I seem to have used a lot less water. But I had constant problems with them so its not even an option to go back. I also added more main vents though.



I don't know. What I do know is the boiler and the piping before the king valves doesn't leak. I don't see or hear any leaks anywhere else either so I have to assume its leaving via vents.

Maine Vent

My usage

Thanks for this reviving this link.



Here in Maine really cold December, and 1st week of January.



My Boiler ran a lot in Dec. I was constantly monitoring the water level.



I am very pleased this January, no water added. I am maintaining the same level.



The only change that I can link to this is, i took off all my Hoff.1A's in the Fall.



I checked them out, retaped them and put them back on. I think I put them back on with more tape, and they are TIGHTER this year for sure.



My Hoff 1A's have performed wonderfull. I like the adjustable/balance feature of these vents.

RomanGK_26986764589

I have Weil McLain EG 40 and I add about 7-8 gallons per a heating season. Not sure if it is a lot or average....

Mark N

It's more then it should be. Check all the packing nuts on your rad valves. Also tighten the union nuts on the rads. The packing might be shot and needs to be replaced. Last winter I used about 1.5 gallons.

Mark N

Also how are you determining how much water you have used?

SWEI

sreja said:

We know it's the buried returns leaking (nothing going up the flu, etc.), we just can't figure out a way to find precisely where the return leak(s) are happening, and can't figure out an economical way to do so and fix them.

A thermal imaging camera *might* be able to locate the leak if you can run hot water into it long enough. We recently located one that had been leaking for 20+ years under a slab, but it took 2 hours of continuous 135°F water from a tankless water heater.

If the runs are straight, you may be able to use (or build) a small version of a trenchless system and drive a bursting head through there. Terrazzo is incredibly expensive to replace, but a two foot square hole at each end could be covered with terrazzo tile if you can find some that comes close to the existing pattern.

nicholas bonham-carter

Maybe you could tunnel underneath the lobby, from the boiler room, to pick up the drops.--NBC

RomanGK_26986764589

Mark N, I've read somewhere that 1 inch on a sight glass equals to about 3.27 quarts. My EG 40 holds about 10 gallons. So I add about 2 inches once a month in the dead of the winter (measured on a sight glass)

Mark N

Roman, different boilers hold different amounts of water. Unless those measurements were taken on the same exact boiler as yours, they most likely aren't valid. Drain 1" of water from your boiler and measure how much water it is.

RomanGK_26986764589

Mark N, Thank You! Will do.

JUGHNE

This 100 year old church has an older Dunkirk, 525,000 input with 1218 EDR (16 1 pipe rads). It was having a lot of water added. Leaks could not be found and boiler was flooded several times looking for leaks. Original piping, rads and probably valves.
After insulation was added, but before generous venting of 8 G-2's & 2 #75 was installed, the pressure would build to almost 2 PSI, then 2 major leaks appeared as a cracked 90 and a bad 2" union. With these now repaired it needed 10 gallons added in the first 48 days of 2015.........2 tenths of a gallon a day.
This boiler with the condensate accumulator tank holds 90 gallons. I have the building water meter in the same room and the church is empty as I observe the meter.
I believe the 90 gallon capacity of the system lessens the effect of harm done by the fresh water.....or not? Does 1/5 gallon per day seem that excessive for this old system?

Fred

Still seems like a good amount of water loss. Are you sure none of the main vents are leaking and that all of the radiator vents close? I noticed a couple years ago I was losing about a quart a day on an 866 sq. ft. steam boiler and, after walking all the mains/checking all the radiators/valves/ fittings, i found a main vent that wasn't completely closing. You wouldn't think you could lose a quart a day from a vent that shows no signs until you check it with a tissue but you do.

Gordy

Zero.......I have radiant heat....good for the environment

ChrisJ

Gordy said:

Zero.......I have radiant heat....good for the environment

I just noticed this.
It's still not funny, even when aged.

BobC

I noticed the boiler started to lose about an inch of water every other day after that -9F day we had in February, I usually add an inch of water every 6-8 weeks. I looked at all the piping, checked all the radiator valves and air vents and saw no signs of leakage.

The boiler is less than 4 years old but I over filled it to the boiler risers one mild day to see if there was a hole someplace. Two hours later I checked under the boiler and in the fire box - no signs of water anyplace. So I lowered the water back to the NWL and fired it up to drive off any oxygen.

I then noticed a drop of water on the newspaper I put under the boiler to catch any leaks. Upon further inspection i found water dripping out of the bonnet of the boiler drain valve and the leak got worse as the boiler heated up. The leak was on the inside of a cement bloc that the boiler sits on so it wasn't obvious but the newspaper picked it right up.

I was able to get about a half turn on that valves bonnet and that stopped the dripping. A new 1/4 turn drain valve is sitting on my workbench waiting to be installed.

Bob

RomanGK_26986764589

Last winter I used to add about 2 inches of water every month to my Weil McLain EG 40 when it was really cold out. So about 2 gallons based on my measurements. I did not find any leaks so maybe I am loosing through the vents. I used the mirror on my vents and they all fog the mirror a little bit when closed. I have one gorton on the radiator and it fogs considerably more. Will try to replace that one soon.

Erin Holohan Haskell

ChrisJ said:

I wish there was a way to do a poll on this forum.

There is now, @ChrisJ! When you start a new thread, choose New Discussion or New Poll from the dropdown.

ChrisJ

Erin Holohan Haskell said:

ChrisJ said:

I wish there was a way to do a poll on this forum.

There is now, @ChrisJ! When you start a new thread, choose New Discussion or New Poll from the dropdown.

See that!
I got my wish!

adambnyc

Interesting to see this topic come back up. I was about to ask this very same question.

I think we all start thinking this same question at about the same time every heating season. With all the work I put into the IN6 this year, I was eager to see how the boiler performed.

My LWCO just kicked in for the first time yesterday. Since the start of the season, the sight glass dropped about 1 1/2 inches then needed water. Much better than it used to be when the boiler was surging.

I still need to swap some vents out on the rads for the varivents I bought. I think that's where I'm loosing a bit.

ChrisJ

No matter what you're going to loose water on a vented system. It's impossible not to. Every time the system cools off and sucks dry winter air back in that air is going to absorb moisture from the system and then get pushed back out when the boiler fires again.

Even if zero steam escapes, you will still use water.

I believe my system in a 1600sqft house is still using about a 1/2 gallon per month, perhaps upwards of a gallon per month in extreme conditions.

One thing that is very important is I'm also running 2 cycles per hour, 3 cycles per hour when it's 10F or colder out. More cycles means more breathing and that means more water leaving.