How do you pitch a Sunrad Burnham?

numberforty1

I've always lived with single pipe radiators, under one end of which you could stick a few books to make sure condensation flowed down the pipe.  Now I have these two-pipe Sunrads with a bunch of water in them (steam system), and there's seemingly no way to do anything about it.



Help!

JStar

Sunrad

There's really no way to pitch them. The valves on the inside make it nearly impossible. I think your issue might be the length of piping underneathe.

kcopp

why is there....

an air vent on a 2 pipe radiator?

numberforty1

Ugh

JStar, what does the length of the piping do?



KCopp, I don't know, I've been trying to get that same question answered here.  I have a feeling my landlord installed these and had no idea what he was doing.

JStar

Rad

Aside from the vent possibly not being needed, the longer piping gives the steam and condensate more areas to interact within (not good). And since they cannot be properly pitched with ease, it may cause noise. We usually see these rads piped with an elbow pointing directly down out of the bottom.

numberforty1

Can it be disconnected easily enough?

Thanks JStar, sounds like bad design.  I don't believe the vent is needed (hence upside down) because another smaller unit is working perfectly silent with the vent upside down.



I actually don't even want this rad to heat because the whole apartment is so over-heated already...any idea what the easiest way is to disconnect this rad entirely so that no steam is going up into the pipe?

Charlie from wmass

sigh

The left pipe is the feed as it is larger. The right is the return. Pitch the radiator towards the right. Keep valves open and check for operation with the air vent right side up and up side down. If it works fine upside down the vent is not needed. If you close the supply valve and have the vent right side up and the pipe gets hot it has not seal against back flow of steam. This may not be an issue if the air vent is removed as the size differential MAY be enough to keep the steam flowing the right way. Very old steam systems of 2 pipe design used the size thing to "work" without individual trap seals or steam traps. Work is a relative term and explains why it was not used for long. It is clear who ever installed these does not know steam so anything is possible. There are only a handful of ways to do a thing properly, but an infinite number of ways to it wrong.

jumper

pitching is problematic

The main is pitched. So if the riser is 90 ° it is sloped. And if the runner is 90° to that maybe it pitches the way it should or maybe the opposite ? Then the connection goes its way ?



If everything is done correctly with appropriate fittings, well & good. But otherwise how do you fix anything after the building is completely finished ?

Charlie from wmass

Sawzall

That's how you fix it.

numberforty1

Thanks Charlie, but...

Are you saying the only way to pitch the thing is to cut the pipe with a sawzall?



The vent is not needed, which makes me ask, why was the rad manufactured with a hole for a vent if it didn't need one?



Again, I don't even want the radiator to heat, I just want it to shut up.   Whether the valves are open or closed, it creates rattling and gurgling sounds when the heat comes up.  I am guessing this is because of water in the pipes that is not draining.  Is that a logical assumption?

JStar

Pitch

If it slopes down towards the right, wouldn't the return pipe/fittings trap water?

RobG

Radiator Drainig

How about an eccentric bushing on the right side of the rad? That would lower the drain side and the rad could be pitched slightly that way as well.

Charlie from wmass

I was refering

to how to fix things if the building is already finished and the pipes are buried in the walls.

The eccentric bushing is over kill as it is already low compared to most of the radiator.

The vent hole is needed when the radiator is used on a one pipe system. The radiator also has a tap to vent it if it was used for hot water.

numberforty1

So, how hard is it to disconnect this thing?

Pretty convinced at this point that the rad is projecting the noise of pipes that are rattling somewhere down the line.  I keep the valves closed all the time anyway, so I just want to disconnect the thing and see if that eliminates all the noise.



My landlord says you would have to cut pipes to disconnect it, but I'm pretty sure he never knows what he is talking about.  Anyone know how to separate this Sunrad from the copper pipes that are connected to it?

icesailor

Rad Bad

There are only a handful of ways to do a thing properly, but an infinite number of ways to it wrong.

Along with "There's never enough time to do it right. But always time for someone else to do it over."

"Someone else" brought that radiator in and put it in place. My back would be grateful.