Suggestions on reducing heat

TeachMeSteam

My home steam system works great. Some minor problems such as lack of an automatic water feeder which gets annoying since the boiler shuts off a couple of times a season. No skim port was installed by the contractor which would have been nice. But, overall, I shouldn't complain.



Right now, I have a minor problem. One room on the 1st floor that's closest to the boiler gets way too hot. Not only does it have halogen lighting but has a large TV that really makes the room hot. Of course, I switched the radiator vents to a Gordon 4. It still gets way too hot. For example, it's like 75 degrees in there while the rest of the house is 70.



What are some solutions you guys suggest?

The Steam Whisperer (Formerly Boilerpro)

More Efficient lighting

would be number one.  Next up would be a thermostatic radiator valve to shut off teh heat when not needed.

TeachMeSteam

Which radiator valve

Is it possible that the Gordon 4 is malfunctioning? I am assuming that when a vent fails by staying open, it doesn't heat the room any faster or slower. It just releases steam into the room.



Any thermostatic valve that you recommend?



Perhaps there is a vent that is even smaller than the Gordon 4s?

nicholas bonham-carter

Television room too hot

Led lighting is the way to go for lighting without heat.

Or you could turn the vent upside down, shutting the radiator off, and see if the halogen lighting can keep the room warm.

As an aside, this is probably an unbalanced system, as a result of following the Gorton website instructions, which seem to favor radiator venting over main venting. Lots of main venting would let the air out all the pipes first, and then allow the air out at slightly resistance from the risers and rads.

As far as the absence of a water feeder, I would consider that a blessing. Manual feeding forces more frequent visits to the boiler to look for any problems etc.--NBC

TeachMeSteam

Off topic

The lack of automatic water heater is not a blessing but a pain in the ****. I agree you will know if the boiler is losing water but you can accomplish the same thing with a water meter.



On the other hand, without an automatic water feeder, the boiler will turn off periodically at the worst possible times. For example, at 3 am in the morning when you wake up to a house that is ice cold. Or, when you aren't home and your wife doesn't know what to do because the boiler could not be working for various reasons. It's doesn't happen often but it's enough that it's a pain.

Mark N

Water Loss

If I were you I would start looking into reducing your water loss. Adding excessive amounts of water is what kills boilers. Make it part of your routine to check the water level in the boiler like once a week. All steam boilers need to have sediment flushed on a regular basis. When you make your weekly inspection, if the boiler needs to have water added, first flush the sediment out of the mud leg of the boiler and then add water back to the NWL. Then turn on the boiler so you can boil out the excess oxygen that came in with the fresh water. Reducing your water loss and regularly flushing and adding water will extend the life of your boiler for many years. Small leaks and auto water feeders adding water are the number one premature killers of boilers. Check the packing nuts on the rads valves and the main vents and rad vents. These are most likely place to lose water. I been able to reduce my water loss to practically nothing. Right now I could probably go the whole heating season without going off on low water.



Mark

Hap_Hazzard

Suggestions

How many radiators do you have in this room, and what is their EDR?



Do you have a smaller radiator elsewhere that you could exchange?



Dave already suggested a trv--great idea.



NBC's suggestion on main venting should help.



Radiator covers are a great way to reduce the EDR of a radiator, especially if you block airflow at the top and bottom.

Hap_Hazzard

Water Feeder

A water feeder is a safety device, not a convenience. Its purpose is to keep a boiler working in an emergency. A couple of times a season isn't an emergency; it's a maintenance issue, and a serious one. Nothing shortens a boiler's life like a fluctuating water line and excessive make-up water. If you're routinely losing water you need to find out where it's going and fix it. If you're losing it as steam, it's leaving all its minerals behind in the boiler where it will build up until the inside of your boiler looks like somebody poured concrete into it. Otherwise it will just accelerate corrosion and your sections will start leaking and you'll lose water even faster.



I have an automatic feeder on my boiler, and it has a meter on it, and that meter reads "000". If it ever reads anything else, I'll know I've got a problem. And it's not just that I keep the boiler filled; I don't need to. It doesn't lose any water unless I skim it or blow it down. This is normal. What you've got isn't. The worst thing you could do in your situation is to hook up a water feeder to make it easier to prematurely destroy your boiler. Fix the leak you already have, then get a water feeder in case a new one develops.

jumper

HappyHazzard says....

Radiator covers are a great way to reduce the EDR of a radiator, especially if you block airflow at the top and bottom.



That's what I was going to suggest. Throw a blanket on the radiator.

TeachMeSteam

How much loss is normal?

How much water loss is normal? I was under assumption that some loss was normal. I can't remember where I read it (perhaps in Dan Holohan's book?) but there is some water loss just escaping from the vents.



In my situation, the amount of water loss is probably half a tank a season. Tell me if I am wrong but that doesn't seem to be an amount that would eat the sides of the boiler away.



But, in any case, if adding water 2-4 times in a season isn't normal, I'd rather fix it. I've checked all possible places and there isn't anything that's leaking. No visible wet spots, either at the radiator side or the basement where the mains are located. I'm stumped.



I've got several of the largest Gorton main vents on my lines so I assumed that a lot of water escapes when the boiler heats up - before the steam gets hot enough to shut the main vents off.



Going back to the heat problem in my room. The EDR on the radiator is probably a little too much for the room. It basically had no insulation previously and we put in insulation recently. Unfortunately, the room is now too hot. Of course, we can't simply lower the thermostat because the rest of the house will be too cold. The radiator cover idea seems like a great idea. Thanks for the idea, Hazzard. So simple. I don't know if they sell them for radiators that are set in the wall but I'll look. I know of one company but they ask for $500 for a custom metal cover which is way too high for me.

Mark N

Water Loss

Yes you will always lose some water, the idea is to keep it to an absolute minimum. As I stated earlier check to make sure the packing nuts in the hand valves aren't leaking. Also check the packing to make sure it hasn't completely deteriorated. Make sure the union nut is tight, sometimes you need to disconnect the rad at the union and clean up the mating surfaces and reassemble. How old are the main vents? The main vents open and close every time the boiler runs. Debris can end up in the main vents and keep the from closing completely. Do you have a wet or dry return? A wet return that is buried in the floor can leak water you never see. Good luck.

Hap_Hazzard

Very little

If it's enough to shut your boiler down on low water a couple of times a season, it's excessive. The only time mine has shut down on low water, other than testing the LWCO, was when my return started leaking.



But even if you're losing half the boiler volume per season, the level shouldn't get critically low in less than a week, so you must not be paying close enough attention to your boiler. If you have a float type LWCO, you should be blowing it down once a week. If not, you should at least be checking your water level every week or two, especially if you know it's losing water. You can't just fire it up and forget about it until spring.



Yes, it's normal for some water to be lost through the vents. Some steam does escape before the vents close, but in order for a little water to escape, a lot of steam has to escape. You'd need to lose over 13 cubic feet of steam to lose a cup of water. You'd hardly notice if a cup of water was missing from your boiler, but you'd certainly notice 13 cubic feet of steam.

ChrisJ

water feeder

I agree with others.

I have a water feeder sitting on my shelf which I refused to install on my new boiler.  It had rotted out the previous boiler TWICE in less than 10 years as the previous owner simply let it do its thing, and ignored many leaks.



The boiler I just installed needs very little water added.  In fact, I add water less often than most should change their filters on forced hot air systems.

TeachMeSteam

I'm stumped

Sorry for not updating more but got caught up with work and the thanksgiving.



I haven't found any leaks anywhere. Every pipe and joint is pretty much visible in the basement. I'm stumped on where the leak is occurring.



The leak isn't a lot since the low water cuts off about every 2 months. So, I guess it's a small leak. It would be great to find it but it looks like a puzzle that will never be solved.

ChrisJ

Leaks

Have you checked the boiler for leaks?  Vents on the radiators and valve stems?