9 residential

jrbayside

9 residential

Clocked the meter, putting out 315000 btu per hour. To me it seems to be enough.

I checked the pitch on the problem pipe, and its pitched in the wrong direction.

bought 2 lolly columns  to jack up the pipe, and it moved pretty well, except now I think I moved the water trap down the line towards the boiler. Going to get 2 more lolly columns and work back towards boiler.

    I drilled 1/4 inch holes in the bottom of the main and keep getting water, it seems that by repitching the main , I just moved the water trap. Tomorrow I will try 2 more lolly columns and hopefully get this problem behind me.



Again, thanks for all your help, it is invaluable.



        Thanks

       Ron

jrbayside

9 residential

Well today I opened some of the 1/4 inch holes I drilled yesterday, and a lot of water came out from 1 of them. The pipe got hotter further along that run, but not to the end where I need it. I called w-m to  ask them if adjusting the pressure would move the steam, and they said no, because of the setting I already have. They did tell me that lowering the cut out might help. So tomorrow I will try to lower the cut out to 1 1/2 and see if the heat gets farther Still confused.

 

Ron

BobC

The lower the better

Steam systems work best a low pressure but that will not compensate for mis-sloped piping. How close are you to achieving the right slope?



Bob

jrbayside

9 residential

Pretty close. Its in the right direction now and I am going to try to lower the cut out and see what happens.

thanks again, Ron

jrbayside

9 residential

Well I did lower the cut out to about 8 oz differential, and found a section of mis-sloped pipe. I did jack up the pipe and got the steam much closer to the vertical riser. Still not all the way there, but getting better. Will go back tomorrow and do more work to see if I can get this resolved.



Thanks again for all your help,   Ron

jrbayside

9 residential

Well today i t, and now thw boiler is short cycling. im almost rady to hng myself, Every day a new problem. Didnt sort cycle yesterday didnt chnge anything dont know anymore.

thanks again Ron

jrbayside

9 residential

What to try next ? Did nothing to change things since last Thurs., but now the boiler is short cycling. The long main is not hot  anymore. just losing my mind ( whatever is left)

   Help,     Ron_

BobC

Something has changed

We just don't know what.



You lowered the pressure and it seemed better but then got worse. Have you removed those plugs again to see if there is more water in the main? Go back over the main and see if anything moved, use a piece of string if you can so you can see any dips.



If that yields nothing try turning the pressure back up to where it was before and see what that does. We are missing something and we have to try and figure it out.



Bob

jrbayside

9 residential

I checked the plugs, nothing dramatic came out, I will check the pipes for the pitch, but it seems that it is haunting me. I havent changed anything else, but Ill see what I can find. Again, thanks for the help,      Ron

jrbayside

9 residential

Bob, thanks for your help  and you are right. something changed and Iwill get to it today. will let you know what happens.



Again, thanks a lot   Ron the bewildered

Dave in QCA

gas supply question

Many posts back, you stated the you have a WM 550,000BTU boiler.   When you got around to clocking the meter, you said it was measuring 315,000 BTU/HR and that you thought that was enough.  Looks to me like it is firing way below its rated amount.   How did you conclude that 315,000 was enough?



Also, I have to also ask, just to remove possibilities, back before this problem started did you replace any vents on your radiators?



What make on model is your boiler?  Please take some pictures and post them.  Especially the gas train and valves, regulator, etc.

jrbayside

9 residential

Hi Dave thanks for the help,  the w-m is a egh-125,  550000btu input, 440000btu output.  (thats what it says on data plate) 

I clocked the meter as per the formula provided to me on the posts. 

 I will try to take pictures and uploaded them.



Again, thanks or the help, I am getting dizzy with this.

Dave in QCA

formula is correct

Formula is correct, but I do it a little different.  I count up how much gas the meter measures in 1 minute.  

When you clock the meter, you are measuring the gas that your boiler is burning.  What your boiler is actually burning is the "input".  So, on yours, with nothing else running, you should be measuring just a hair more than 9 cf in 1 minute.



But, your gas line does not sound like it is undersided much, it at all, depending on how far it runs from the meter.  



Sometimes, slow opening gas valves get stuck and stay in the ignition low fire stage.  I sometimes a got firm tap to the side of the valve body is all it takes to free it up.  



Sometimes, there is a regulator that can be adjusted to increase the manifold pressure, thus increasing the firing rate.

jrbayside

9 residential

When I clocked the meter,I did it for a minute. It was 10.5 for the min.  I ran 2 inch line from the meter, (class 4 meter) to the pipe that feeds the valve. The run is about 35 feet.  I will take pix and show you.

again thanks for all thr  help,   Ron

Dave in QCA

confused

10.5 turns on a 1/2 cf dial or 10.5 cf in a minute?   I am confused as to how you came up with 315,000 in your earlier post.



If you are measuring 10.5 cf per minute, then you are firing at 630,000 BTU/Hr, which is too high.   If it is on the 1/2 cf dial, then that comes out to 315,000 BTU/HR, which is way too low.

jrbayside

9 residential

I clocked the half cu ft dial. Took some pix will try to upload and then describe them

jrbayside

9 residential

1- clas4 meter

2-2 inch supply  I resized

3-supply to boiler

4- gas valve

5-2 inch to 1 1/4 inch going to valve

6- Header going to other side of basement

7- shorter run

8- long run I had to repitch

9-going through back wall to small room

10- short run back room of basement

11- end of that run, 2 gorton #2, Vertical riser I cant get hot



last week I got steam to within 3 feet of the vertical riser. Now I cant get half of the long run hot. Today boiler was not short cycling.



What next?     Ron

Steve_175

Pic 6

I noticed a gorton ven in the pic. The small round silver thing. Probably either a C or a D. Kind of odd to see it there. You should take it off and see if it still works. Not where they normally go.



http://www.gorton-valves.com/specify.htm

jrbayside

9

I know, i drilled a hole and just really needed to fill it. I could put in a plug. wanted to see If water was standing at that point

BobC

Thinking out loud

I've noticed my blue gas burner flame has been pretty well orange tipped for the last couple of days on my gas stove. This usually means they are adding air to the gas lines to keep the pressure up because of very heavy gas use during the cold snap.



Did you ever measure your connected EDR? If you are putting 315,000 BTU into that boiler and it's about 80% efficient you can feed about 1000 sq ft of EDR. If that number is about what you have, maybe this is something that changed. I have no idea of how much air they might be adding but if your on the edge it might make a difference.



If the input to that boiler is that low maybe the gas pressure isn't as high as it should be or maybe it's stuck on low fire. All this is conjecture but you should verify the gas pressure is correct per the manual and that the boiler is not on low fire.



Bob

jrbayside

9 residential

you are probably wright that the boiler is

 not putting out enough. What you say is not

conjecture, because you know more than I do. I am still learning and figuring out whats going on.

 Unfortunately most of the plumbers in my area know less. I learned the hard way.

I am going to find out what the fuel requirements are for my boiler, that will solve some of the problems. 

All of your help is greatly appreciated.    Ron

BobC

It's just something to consider

There may be more than one thing going on here, we just have to prove or disprove theories as we go. I am by no means an expert on a large system like yours but the basics stay the same no matter the size.



Where are you, perhaps one of the pro's who frequent this board is nearby.



Bob

jrbayside

9 residential

I am in beautiful yonkers ny, proud owner of a 9 res and 3 com building. i hired plumbers  who didnt know s@#t from shinola. thats why I am learnig the way things really are. Got tired of getting ripped off.

jrbayside

9 residential

Well, I have come to the conclusion that I have done everything in my power to resolve this problem. The boiler is not short cycling (?) I called con ed and came up to the conclusion that a new  gas pipe from the street is my last and only option. Will let you know, maybe they can help, or god knows a grant to help pay for this.

will let you all know what happens.

By the way, everything else seems to be on order.



Thanks again,   bewildered  Ron



 

SWEI

gas pressure

Did Con-Ed come out and measure it?  What did they find?  

jrbayside

9 residential

No, I spoke to them, they checked the street pressure, said I have low pressure coming from the street. Based on what I told them, thats what they said. They say I need a class 1000 meter and larger supply line. I did not want to get into more details with them, cause they said they would have to red tag the 4 meter.

SWEI

have you confirmed

a drop in fuel pressure under fire?

jrbayside

9 residential

P.S. I told the size of my boiler. They say its 125 hp? beets me22

SWEI

I'm asking a very simple question

have you verified gas pressure drop under fire?

jrbayside

9 residential

Can you tell me how to check for loss of pressure?