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Counter-flow Question

Hawkeye2
Hawkeye2 Member Posts: 2
in Strictly Steam
We are presently installing a replacement boiler on a counter-flow system. The customer would like a Hartford Loop added to this piping arrangement. I may be just developing a mental block to this idea, but I am having difficulty understanding how this might be done and just what purpose it would serve in this type of system.  Thanks

Comments

  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,511
    The Customer is Always Right - NOT!

    There's no return on a counter flow to create a hartford loop for. The purpose of the Hartford loop is to maintain the water level in the boiler should a return line start leaking. It's to keep the boiler from dry firing and exploding. See the attached for proper counter flow piping.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • Rod
    Rod Posts: 2,067
    edited September 2012
    Counterflow System Configurations

    Hi-  From what I've seen there are a couple of ways to pipe a counterflow system. There is the classic system and another configuration that works well with drop headers and multiple mains (and also utilizes a Hartford Loop)  I' ve attached drawing below of some possible configurations and also some pictures of a nice counterflow system done by Steve Gronski, a Rhode Island steam pro, which uses drips and a wet return / Hartford Loop.

    - Rod
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,511
    Drips

    That's the exception. Installing drips creates returns and and then the Hartford loop would be possible though some would argue not necessary with proper low water cut off protection.



    The drips with the drop header will give dryer steam, but may not be in the price quoted for the average counter flow boiler replacement.



    Thanks for the drawing and pics, Rod.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • Paul Fredricks_3
    Paul Fredricks_3 Member Posts: 1,557
    what if

    What if steve had just attached the drips into the return pipe going into the boiler? Wouldn't that eliminate most of the piping and fittings that could possibly leak? It's seems like adding the Hartford loop creates the need to protect the return.
  • Rod
    Rod Posts: 2,067
    Counterflow Piping

    Hi Paul - What you say makes sense and has been discussed before. As I remember it, the comments suggested that doing it with a wet return / Hartford Loop were that it took the weight/expansion of the drips off the boiler return piping and provided a place for dirt to settle (note the makeup water pipe setup would also flush the wet return) and more importantly, provided a Hartford Loop for the ignorant inspectors that insisted that all steam boilers needed one! :)

    - Rod
  • Paul Fredricks_3
    Paul Fredricks_3 Member Posts: 1,557
    ahhh

    Excellent points. The loop is not needed or required, but probably better for the life of the system. I just hate doing things becuase the inspector says so, and not because it's code or needed. 
  • Hawkeye2
    Hawkeye2 Member Posts: 2
    Counter-flow Question

    All good points, thanks for the diagram and photos. Our customer definitely wants the loop so he will have it and I will feel better about installing it. Thanks all again.
  • NormanR
    NormanR Member Posts: 3
    Thanks!

    As a homeowner, I found the Peerless Steam Survey and pre-installation checklist hugely helpful. Thanks for posting it!

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