BURNHAM 5009b or SMITH 19he ???

jamesml

We are about to replace an old 850000 btu crane boiler from 1969 with either a Burnham or Smith boiler. I have measured all the rads and came up with 463824. Smith sizing reccomendations add 1.333 -"piping and pickup allowance" bringing it up to 633000. Building is from 1908, no to little insulation and is in Canada where it stays at -40 for extended periods in the winter. During these cold spells the previous boiler would run off the thermostat for about 35 minutes then shut off for a half hour until the thermostat called for heat again. Thermostat is a Honneywell programmable thermostat with telephone interface. Actually the thermostat was a problem in two areas- it gave incorrect readings over the phone quite often(255 degree readings) and it would try to anticipate the programmed settings with very poor results(turning boiler on and off for just a couple to a few  minutes at a time) So , 3 questions; Which is the better boiler? Is a 694 rated boiler too much? What other thermostat options do we have?  Thank you in advance for your responses.

Steamhead

Of those two

I'd go with the Smith. It is a wet-base, power-burner type which doesn't lose heat out of the base, like the atmospheric 5B series does. Also, the power burner can control the combustion parameters much better.



The Burnham V9 and Weil-McLain 80 series would also be good choices. These also use power burners.

nicholas bonham-carter

Thermostat selection

For larger steam systems, there is the tekmar 269/279 (made in Canada!). This control uses input from several indoor sensors, and one outdoor sensor to fire the boiler in a more economical way, reducing any temperature swings.

There is also the Honeywell vision pro which uses only an indoor sensor, which can be mounted in a remote (colder part of building) location, with the control panel in a locked area. It is adequate I feel for my 55 rad system, and is less expensive.

For real comfort and economy, you should use a vaporstat (0-16ounce) to regulate the pressure down to a few ounces (6 in my system). Allow for a low pressure gauge(0-15 ounces ,gauge store.com).

This will require generous main (not rad) venting on the dry returns (18 gorton 2's in my case).

In my case, after changing the boiler, and making the above changes, fuel consumption went down by a third, with much more comfort.--NBC

Also I would suggest not using a setback, unless it is for several days, as the energy used to regain the higher temperature can often negate that saved by the lower temperature. Do a search here for setback and you will find many thoughts. By having a well regulated system, you can often use a lower temperature setting as a constant temperature.

jamesml

thanks !

Thanks for the suggestions. It looks like the tekmar is discontinued. Also the vision pro from honeywell seems to have the same issues my honeywell thermostat has : online blogs have people asking " why the visionpro calls for heat for only a couple minutes",( especially since the thermostat is already showing the room is at the temperature setting) . I want a thermostat that does not think for itself , calling for heat for a few minutes as this simply does not work with steam . I do want to keep my telephone interface though. So you have installed 18 Gortons, where did you locate them exactly?

jamesml

smith19he burnhamv9 weil-mclain80 $$?

thanks for the suggestions on the boilers. As I have a price of around 8000 for the smith19he, I am curious how the others compare. Any info is appreciated. thanks

Steamhead

We do not

discuss pricing on this forum.

jamesml

ok

which one is the best?

Rod

Tekmar 279

Hi-  According to my Jan 2012 Tekmar catalog, the Tekmar 279 is still available.

  http://tekmarcontrols.com/products/hvac-systems/279.html      It replaced the 269.

 The 279 is a very interesting unit.  You might want to download and read the manuals.

- Rod

jamesml

thanks

Good man ! thank you for pointing that out.

Rod

Info on Venting

Hi- You might want to take a look at Gerry Gill's website. http://www.gwgillplumbingandheating.com/    Gerry Gill is a Cleveland steam pro and his website has a lot of info on steam heating.  He and Steve Pajek wrote the book on venting

http://www.heatinghelp.com/products/Steam-Heating-Books/25/146/Balancing-Steam-Systems-Using-a-Vent-Capacity-Chart-by-Gerry-Gill-and-Steve-Pajek

The tables and venting info in Gerry and Steve's book are also included in Dan's book, "Greening Steam"     http://www.heatinghelp.com/products/Steam-Heating-Books/25/158/Greening-Steam-br-How-to-Bring-19th-Century-Heating-Systems-into-the-21st-Century-i-and-save-lots-of-green-i

- Rod

jumper

just curious

How come the building hasn't been insulated & sealed? A million btu burner during Canadian long winter burns money. Is the building a rich lady's mansion who wants to preserve historic character ?