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Replacement Pool heaters

b young_2
b young_2 Member Posts: 7
in THE MAIN WALL
I have (2) Lochinvar CPN 990,000 btu outdoor natural gas pool heaters that are in need of replacement.  They are a great heater when they work but parts are tough to get in a hurry and price of parts is also an issue.  Just wondering if anyone is using a specific heater that has a really great tract record or how about is anyone using an electric heater or and ASHP type heater.  The ASHP ones would be great but i am not sure that I can get ones even close to big enough.  Thanks for your Help.

Brian

Comments

  • Zman
    Zman Member Posts: 7,611
    What climate?

    What climate are you in? What are you heating with those monsters? Has anyone checked your heat loss? ASHP's will perform well in some climates. I doubt they are practical on this scale.To match these boilers with electric would require a service upgrade and would almost certainly triple your energy costs.Are these boilers on there own meter? If so you could probably determine your BTU needs by checking your gas usage on peak and startup days. 
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
    Albert Einstein
  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
    edited June 2012
    large ASHPs

    http://www.multistack.com/Products/AirCooled.aspx

    I've never seen them used in a swimming pool application, but with the right HX there's no reason they wouldn't perform as well there as they do for space conditioning.
  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,858
    Pool boiler sizing...

    Is usually dictated by the worst case scenario load, which is usually cold recovery in a short period of time. In reality, this happens maybe once a year.



    Maintenance BTU's are generally the lesser of the two loads.



    If it were me, I'd look at putting in a hybrid system. A good gas fired modcon with the right heat exchanger, and numerous staged ASHP's. I'd also recommend stretching the amount of time allowed for full recovery from a cold start. Pool sales people LOVE customers who want to recover their pools in short order. It makes for a great BIG pool heater sale.



    Changing the allowable recovery time, for example, from 24 hours to 48 hours cuts the physical plant needs in HALF. Its not that hard to plan around a 2 day down time on a swimming pool.



    Jandy makes both a modcon gas fired pool heater, and an air source heat pump. Google "swimming pool heat pump" and see what pops up. I would bet a person can find any size of ASHP their heart desires, but remember that having multiple units will provide for more efficient seasonal compressor operation by staging only the required BTU's to be on line at any given time. (Think 10 cylinder engine versus a large single cylinder engine)



    http://www.rheem.com/products/pool_spa/classicseries/



    Hot tubs are a different beast due to higher temperatures of operation and difference between "Idle" mode and "Run" mode. Keeping the hot tub covered when not used, and keeping the set back shallow will also result in a significant physical plant reduction.



    And then there is low temperature unglazed solar....



    http://www.fafco.com/sph/default.aspx



    FAFCO has been on the solar pool heating business longer than anyone I can remember.



    You have options.... Using any manufacturer's sizing charts will let you know where you currently stand, and what your options are.



    ME

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  • Zman
    Zman Member Posts: 7,611
    Location,location,location

    I agree with ME on the condensing boiler and the heat exchanger. Find a good mod/con that is well supported in your area and a bulletproof heat exchanger and you have your solution. As far as the the ASHP it comes down to location. In warmer climate with low electric rates, the ASHP may be a great idea. In North Dakota, it would be nuts. Post your region and your electric and gas rates and you will have your answer.

    Carl
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
    Albert Einstein
  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,858
    True true...

    As with ANY question regarding hydronics, the only correct answer is "It depends..." followed by "Let me get back to you..."



    Do the math.



    YMMV...



    ME

    There was an error rendering this rich post.

  • b young_2
    b young_2 Member Posts: 7
    Replacement heaters

    This is a large city pool with (2) large water slides and numerous water features in it.  When the air temp gets to around seventy degrees they both have a hard time maintaining temp.  There is no room for them to be inside and outside is the only place for them. 
  • b young_2
    b young_2 Member Posts: 7
    Replacement heaters

    This is a large city pool with (2) large water slides and numerous water features in it.  When the air temp gets to around seventy degrees they both have a hard time maintaining temp.  There is no room for them to be inside and outside is the only place for them. 
  • Henry
    Henry Member Posts: 998
    Pool heaters

    We done a good number of municipal as well as large private pools including, one customer that uses his pool in the winter! Hisinstallation includes a KNIGHT KBN500 and a 400,000 BTU titanium tube & shell heat exchanger.



    Nearly all the new installs are mod/con. We ONLY use all titanium heat exchangers as we have had the ocaisional problem with marine grade S/S brazed plates. If the client uses salt insttead of chlorine, titanium is the only way to go. One word of caution with some titanium heat exchangers: don't ever get one with the female connections are made of polymer! We have had failures in several, several years after being installed and used. The different rate of expansion between either PVC, copper, steel or S/S pipe, causes stress cracks as if one over tightned the pipe into it.
  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,858
    Ah yes,,, evaporative cooling....

    Sucks the heat right out of the pool. Chemicals too.



    I'd still do the math and see of the ASHP's might have a future home. The economics might be in their favor, and we all know how these munis are broke and looking for ways to cut their budgets.



    ME

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  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
    When the air temp gets to around seventy degrees

    how sunny is it?



    I'm guessing some kind of hybrid system is going to be your best bet for this.  Hopefully solar will be able meet some portion of their needs.  A mod/con or a heat pump (depending on our utility rates) to take care of maintaining temp on a typical day, augmented by a standard efficiency boiler(s) large enough to cover the peaking needs.
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