Hallmark Furnace Issues. Looking for advice.

ZerbeAM

Hey all. Here is my dilema.

I have a customer with an HB-85 with a Riello burner washable dustmag air filter. We have been to her house A LOT over this past winter. The complaints are short cycle, rooms not heating evenly, burning smell, dirt at registers... etc. We have done our proper CE tests after any burner adjustment we are not getting anything that screams out cracked exchanger, we even got one of the cameras that we can put in the heat exchanger to check. (can not do the mint test because she is EXTREMELY sensitive to smells.) There apeared to be parts of the insulation from around the heat exchanger that got to the registers in the house. There are a couple parts to my questions and i am looking for anyone to give me some insite on what the next step should be. My last post here was a great help. Below are the questions followed by some of the service history. Thanks in advance if you take the time to read. Please feel free to ask me more if this is not enough info.

 

Question 1: Are we missing something? Is there some step that my guys are over looking due to the frustration of repeat calls? It seems like we have done almost everything... some things twice.

Question 2: If she does in fact have a problem who can i tun to other than manufacturers reps for an in depth diagnosis that will still keep her trust in my company?

Question 3: If i have done everything in our power, how do i break that to the customer? (a concern of mine is she is an elderly woman and sometimes she flip flops on an issue once we arive)

Question 4: What do i do next?!?!?!?!?!? HEEEEEEELLLLLLLLPPPPPP!!!!

History is attached for you viewing pleasure. I have taken out my cost... but i am sure most of you can get into the ball park.

Paul48

Unless

you find a problem...Stop replacing parts.Is she getting air flow to all the rooms?Is there a humidifier on the system? By short-cycling, does that mean she was not as warm as she would have liked?

ZerbeAM

No part changing

Agree 100% allow me to further explain. I do equipment sales. I came up in the feild and have always been a fan of 'show your work'. I got involved in this only within the last week, once i got wind of what happened. We are now not changing anything until we have good reason.

Air flow seems to be good in all room. Seems to be great in the room she complained about.

No humidifier.

Alegedlly she starts the unit in the morning, "some times it short cycles, some times it doesn't" - her words.

The second to last time my guy went in the afternoon and said there was no problem. This last time he did the cad cell eye...

Thanks much for the input

Steamhead

Call the folks at Boyertown Furnace

they do a great job of supporting their product. 

John@Reliable_10

Hallmark history ?

A lot more information is needed, your history is useless. Is the system clean on fireside,chimney, and blower assy too? What are the test results? Type of thermostat, type of pony relay for burner or fan center, settings of fan limit and is it the right size? Not to mention amp draw, electrode adjustment, and pump psi.

P.S. Boyertown is a great company but they will ask a lot of the same questions I ask too.

billtwocase

I'll echo John's post

Does this have an "A" coil, is it a belt driven blower? and so on. Much more info needed. These newer units were much better than the older Jomar type furnaces. Why the Riello? Packaged unit i'm sure, but not needed on warm air furnace JMHO.

Ironman

I see One Other Thing

It appears that there have been 4 thermostats put on since January. Has anyone checked the current draw through "R and W"? You could have bad wiring between the t'stat and the furnace or a bad holding coil in the relay or primary control.



Also, the formula of Btu output / (delta T x 1.08) = cfm. will confirm how much air flow you have. Use a single thermometer placed in the supply duct that's out of a direct sight line from the heat exchanger to take your delta T. Start only the fan with no heat and take your first reading, then start the burner and take the supply temp after the heat exchanger is hot.



Also, use a little investigative deduction and check beyond the appliance itself. Is the thermostat being effected by another heat source? What time of the day does the problem occur? Is the customer using a second heat source? Is there something blocking the return grille? Is the blower motor shutting off mid-cycle due to a bad cap or weak overload?



You need to think out of the box on this one and stop running the same bases that have been gone over repeatedly.

ZerbeAM

Lots of good insight

Thanks guys. Gave me a couple of good things to look at and I will definitely contact Boyertown.

@John, the system is clean. Ultra clean. We went over the thing with a fine tooth comb after the second or third call from what I was told. We keep records of the tests, I just couldn't get them off my system in a good format/fast. They all seem to be in order. Electrode and pump psi all noted on a separate part of the equipment info and both have been checked multiple times. You did get me thinking on the t-stat, amp draw and fan limit. I remember 2 of the guys going back and forth on the settings. I will have to ask a bit more.

@Bill I don't believe it has an A coil. I will look into the belt drive.... And I tend to agree, although I have become more of a Riello fan over the years.

@Ironman also really good points. I can tell you that one t-stat got changed because it was infact defective. I believe it was the first replacement.... But it is really odd to have that in the history. I will look into a bad holding coil. I am also fairly sure a cal was done to check the cfm's.... But again will have to dig a bit. My plan is to go to the next service call and spend sometime talking to the customer to get myself a little more acquainted to what the problem is.



Thanks again to each of you. The insight is much appreciated. I will try to keep you updated, if you think of anything else I am all ears.

VictoriaEnergy

Question

Why was the smoke pipe replaced twice in such a short period of time?